10/24 Hour 3: Sharif Abdullah - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T14:25:37Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/10-24-hour-3-sharif-abdullah?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A2336&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThank you, Lauren, for this "…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-11:6451976:Comment:167552011-12-11T12:01:35.241ZOccupy Cafe Stewardshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/21u3twzbb9qcp
<p>Thank you, Lauren, for this "meditation" on the core idea of our deep interconnectedness and the challenges we face in staying aware of this reality. </p>
<p>I think this speaks directly to the question of framing for the Occupy movement. In the end, do we want to focus on "Us" <em>versus</em> the "1%?" How do we stand most powerfully for a world in which our connectedness is the guiding principle behind all that we do?</p>
<p>By the way, Jitendra Darling is starting a new Cafe Call…</p>
<p>Thank you, Lauren, for this "meditation" on the core idea of our deep interconnectedness and the challenges we face in staying aware of this reality. </p>
<p>I think this speaks directly to the question of framing for the Occupy movement. In the end, do we want to focus on "Us" <em>versus</em> the "1%?" How do we stand most powerfully for a world in which our connectedness is the guiding principle behind all that we do?</p>
<p>By the way, Jitendra Darling is starting a new Cafe Call series on Fridays from 3-5pm EST--<strong><a href="http://bit.ly/Occupy_Heart_Registration" target="_blank">Occupy Heart</a></strong>-- that will take us into this realm at an experiential level. I hope you can join us and help to spread the word.</p>
<p>Ben Roberts</p>
<p></p> The Vimala Thakar article is…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-22:6451976:Comment:124692011-11-22T21:16:17.713ZSharif Abdullahhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/SharifAbdullah
<p>The Vimala Thakar article is powerful. She absolutely NAILS the argument that has been the fuel for my fire for a long time: that we must "Occupy" the space between societal transformation and spiritual awareness. </p>
<p>Many have ignored this junction. Others have approached it the way that Obama approaches the political "center": trying to bring together the two parties, failing to realize that they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN BEING BROUGHT TOGETHER.</p>
<p>The space for…</p>
<p>The Vimala Thakar article is powerful. She absolutely NAILS the argument that has been the fuel for my fire for a long time: that we must "Occupy" the space between societal transformation and spiritual awareness. </p>
<p>Many have ignored this junction. Others have approached it the way that Obama approaches the political "center": trying to bring together the two parties, failing to realize that they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN BEING BROUGHT TOGETHER.</p>
<p>The space for society-spirit work is by forging a NEW BRIDGE, one that is ABOVE the current landscape, not mired in it. Thakar's call for "total revolution" begins to address all of the issues -- not just how to get dry sleeping bags into an encampment.</p>
<p>Her statement is the "3-D's" in action: direction, discipline and devotion. And, I am SO happy that it is too long to "tweet"! It gets us back into some very old habits -- like thinking, reflecting and contemplating, as opposed to scanning and reacting. (Please take time to download and read the whole thing!)</p>
<p>Thanks so much for turning me on to this article! </p>
<p>Peace,</p>
<p>Sharif</p> My point is not aimed at the…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-18:6451976:Comment:107452011-11-18T05:19:48.948ZJitendra Darlinghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/JitendraDarling
<p>My point is not aimed at the philosophy or efficacy of network marketing as a business model, there are no shortage of arguments pro and con, yours is certainly valid. It doesn't capture my interest.</p>
<p>My point is that I've witnesses people using network marketing as an exercise in building huge networks of communication and connection, invaluable assets to growing a cause like #Occupy.</p>
<p>My point is not aimed at the philosophy or efficacy of network marketing as a business model, there are no shortage of arguments pro and con, yours is certainly valid. It doesn't capture my interest.</p>
<p>My point is that I've witnesses people using network marketing as an exercise in building huge networks of communication and connection, invaluable assets to growing a cause like #Occupy.</p> I'm not at all sure what you'…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-18:6451976:Comment:108372011-11-18T04:38:11.548ZRobert Riversonghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>I'm not at all sure what you're getting at, Jitendra, but network marketing is a hierarchical, pyramid, ponzi scheme. </p>
<p>I'm not at all sure what you're getting at, Jitendra, but network marketing is a hierarchical, pyramid, ponzi scheme. </p> Have you ever had the thought…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-18:6451976:Comment:106382011-11-18T04:18:49.349ZJitendra Darlinghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/JitendraDarling
<p>Have you ever had the thought that network marketing was an engineered exercise to prepare people to #Occupy our planet? [Diagram above aside]</p>
<p>Have you ever had the thought that network marketing was an engineered exercise to prepare people to #Occupy our planet? [Diagram above aside]</p> Always fun to see you get exc…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-17:6451976:Comment:107172011-11-17T23:56:26.240ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Always fun to see you get excited, my friend! Found <a href="http://humanity4point0.ning.com/" target="_blank">this Humanity 4.0 ning site</a>--maybe you can download the slideshare from there. Or just ask Michelle. She's here at OC.</p>
<p>Always fun to see you get excited, my friend! Found <a href="http://humanity4point0.ning.com/" target="_blank">this Humanity 4.0 ning site</a>--maybe you can download the slideshare from there. Or just ask Michelle. She's here at OC.</p> Ben, I go for this. Thanks.…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-17:6451976:Comment:100642011-11-17T23:45:58.713ZBruce Schumanhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BruceSchuman
<p>Ben, I go for this. Thanks.</p>
<p>And I went to the "Humanity 4.0" thing -- and love it. It's perfect for us -- for "all" of us...</p>
<p>So, that got me excited.</p>
<p>Now....</p>
<p>My own so-called technical background does involve a lot of analytic study of this whole/part relationship -- that Michelle Holliday illustrates so gracefully and intuitively in her presentation (which I would immediately download, if her installation allowed it!)</p>
<p>Yes, Ken Wilber did put this theme…</p>
<p>Ben, I go for this. Thanks.</p>
<p>And I went to the "Humanity 4.0" thing -- and love it. It's perfect for us -- for "all" of us...</p>
<p>So, that got me excited.</p>
<p>Now....</p>
<p>My own so-called technical background does involve a lot of analytic study of this whole/part relationship -- that Michelle Holliday illustrates so gracefully and intuitively in her presentation (which I would immediately download, if her installation allowed it!)</p>
<p>Yes, Ken Wilber did put this theme on the modern map. It's "integral". It's "transcend and include". It's "holons" -- those two-sided "Janus-faced" abstract logical objects, originally named and conceived by Arthur Koestler -- that show the whole/part relationship -- as "looking down the hierarchy" we see the parts that combine to form a whole, and "looking the other way, up the hierarchy", we see the wholes that are composed or assembled or synthesized from the parts.</p>
<p>Since I've been rattling my brain on this subject for many many years -- here's a graphic -- kinda large, maybe hard to see in this compressed framework -- that shows a hierarchy of holons.</p>
<p>Sharif in his comments does talk about "taxonomies" -- genus, species, etc. -- and he's looking at that analytic concept from the critical side -- emphasizing the fact that "analyzing things into components" (reductionism) does tend to break the world into little pieces -- the tendency that Vimala Thakar decries in her article, that ends up fragmenting the world. But yes, I'd say you are so right. Don't pit one side of the holon against the other -- as if the "whole" side were morally superior to the parts that compose it -- and each part IS a whole at its own level. So yes, we need both sides -- and we probably need an enlightened view of reality that recognizes the nature of holons -- a relatively simple idea that could probably defuse a million unnecessary conflicts...</p>
<p>This is my network on this theme:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net/">http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net/</a></p>
<p>A little dry and abstract perhaps, and lacking the charm and visual magnetism of Michelle's elegant and persuasive presentation. But it takes a hard crack at the analysis. It would be very exciting to get into an integral/holon model of the kind of vision we want to synthesize.</p>
<p>The Whole -- The One -- at the top of the vision -- containing all these other levels in some way -- ranging from the "Web of Life" idea, for the evolutionary/gaia theorists, to the "Mystical Body of Christ" for the Logos/Christians -- to the "Sangha" for the Buddhists. The wholeness and oneness which contains all things, and out of which emerges all diversity and specificity....</p>
<p>Man, if we got buy-in on this -- we be rockin'</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/photo/arthur-koestler-holons-hierarchy-1200px/next?context=user" class="next_photo_link"><img height="574" width="737" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1433923428?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" alt="Arthur Koestler: Holons / Hierarchy 1200px" class="photo" id="xj_photo_img_tag"/></a></p> Bruce:
Nice job capturing the…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-17:6451976:Comment:108182011-11-17T22:16:27.903ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Bruce:</p>
<p>Nice job capturing the the essential tension between what appear to be conflicting impulses. I see your "both/and" and raise you with a "both can be seen part of one INTEGRAL approach!"<br></br> <br></br> Fellow OC member Michelle Holliday expresses this beautifully in her provocative slideshare "<a href="http://www.slideshare.net/mholliday/humanity-40-draft-presentation" target="_blank">Humanity 4.0.</a>" Here, she synthesizes the thinking of many people you no doubt know and love,…</p>
<p>Bruce:</p>
<p>Nice job capturing the the essential tension between what appear to be conflicting impulses. I see your "both/and" and raise you with a "both can be seen part of one INTEGRAL approach!"<br/> <br/> Fellow OC member Michelle Holliday expresses this beautifully in her provocative slideshare "<a target="_blank" href="http://www.slideshare.net/mholliday/humanity-40-draft-presentation">Humanity 4.0.</a>" Here, she synthesizes the thinking of many people you no doubt know and love, emerging with an elegant and compelling framework regarding the FOUR THINGS required to have a resiliant and thriving "living system." These are:</p>
<ol>
<li>Diverse parts (the more diversity, the greater the resilience)</li>
<li>A convergent whole (the more there is convergence, the more adaptive and creative the system becomes)</li>
<li>Relationships between the parts, the whole and the outside environment (the more open and free flowing, the better)</li>
<li>A "self-integrating property." This might also be called "life force" or spirit. Without it, the other three components don't have any energy.</li>
</ol>
<p>Holliday goes on to suggest that human social/economic/political/spiritual evolution parallels these three elements, with the first three corresponding to the hunter-gatherer (convergence), hydraulic/agrarian (relationships) and industrial (divergence) ages and the fourth integral phase being the one we are now emerging/awakening into.</p>
<p>It's completely consistent with the Thakar piece you site as well. </p>
<p>SO... what I'm suggesting this tells us as "change agents" is that we want to find ways to feed ALL FOUR of these components, with a particular focus and grounding in the fourth. "Spirit" or "heart" or "love," must inform all our other efforts. In doing so, we can create a dynamic, resilient, adaptive and creative LIVING SYSTEM capable of handling all the complexity of our current transitional phase, as we "hospice the old paradigm and midwife the new."</p>
<p> </p> Dear Sharif -- Dear Everyone…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-17:6451976:Comment:100432011-11-17T21:26:50.674ZBruce Schumanhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BruceSchuman
<p>Dear Sharif -- Dear Everyone --</p>
<p>Thanks for this conversation. Ben R sent me a link to it, and I spent a lot time yesterday looking at it carefully. Like Ben, I thought it was important, and well-expressed, and during intervals while taxiing my friend around L.A., I put all these messages into a Word document, wrote a lot of commentary and responsive dialogue, and thought about whether it might/should be possible to approach this task in a systematic way.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree with…</p>
<p>Dear Sharif -- Dear Everyone --</p>
<p>Thanks for this conversation. Ben R sent me a link to it, and I spent a lot time yesterday looking at it carefully. Like Ben, I thought it was important, and well-expressed, and during intervals while taxiing my friend around L.A., I put all these messages into a Word document, wrote a lot of commentary and responsive dialogue, and thought about whether it might/should be possible to approach this task in a systematic way.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree with Sharif and others -- that "spirit" drives and inspires the vision -- that we need that quiet open calmness, that surrender, that listening grace, that opens the path to powerful inspiration. But I also agree with Rob, where he writes above, that vision or no vision, when the house is on fire we gotta get moving...</p>
<p>I guess for me, it's a "both/and" kind of thing. We need vision AND specific action agendas.</p>
<p>And I am very attracted to the idea that some kind of collective listening grace can lead to shared vision.</p>
<p>But -- my rational brain tends to kick in -- and remind me of what seems to be the overwhelming complexity and detail and vast flood of contending specifics from which any such vision would have to be synthesized.</p>
<p>These are huge questions, vastly complicated, and they have been around a long time. I don't doubt that eloquent heart-centered leadership can take us a long ways -- but for me, it simply remains clear -- perhaps painfully clear -- that this process involves weaving wholeness from the parts. It's an "e pluribus unum" -- "out of many, one". And the sheer list of the parts -- the many -- is a big list. There's a zillion parts, and no obvious way to fit them together -- and unlike a jigsaw puzzle, no big picture to guide what we're doing...</p>
<p>Rob says:</p>
<p><em>So, yes, we are certainly facing "multiple intersecting global crises because our vision (literally, our perception) is far too limited." No question about this; so please keep focusing on this. But in the meantime just don't tell the rest of us that this is all that we should be doing for now. We are not going to all agree with you anyway - no matter what spirit says.</em></p>
<p>This first point, for me -- is a critically important one. The sheer raw number of simultaneous factors we are facing today -- is massive. My own point of view on this is shaped by claims from cognitive psychology -- that simply assert that in specific terms, nobody -- nobody -- can even begin to hold all these factors in their brain. We not only face "interlocking critical crises" -- like climate change and economics and congressional gridlock -- and hundreds of other things we could link in here -- but we don't even have a shared framework to consider the problem.</p>
<p>But my instinct -- is to agree with Sharif -- that profound change -- and maybe even a "fix" -- might be, as Sharif says, "inevitable". Not only needed and demanded -- but inevitable.</p>
<p>So, ok, I am a utopian dreamer. But I believe in life, and a successful human future, and I just don't see -- that a continuing patch-work of badly interconnected and semi-conflicting ad hoc initiatives is going to get us through this, no matter how well intended. Yes, you are right, Rob -- the odds for this new approach ain't great, and this ad hoc thing IS the way we always did it, and maybe always will be. But I think Sharif might say that oh sure, keep doing it that way and the planet will go extinct...</p>
<p>I think we gotta conceive this situation in wholeness. We gotta see the big picture -- maybe the biggest picture -- maybe "the picture that contains all other pictures" -- and start an activist weaving process contained within and guided by the wholeness of that biggest containing framework.</p>
<p>So, yes -- this is kinda "absolutely top-down". "God declares it by fiat." Let there be wholeness, and let these lovely people figure out what they are doing to do within this framework...</p>
<p>This has been a good conversation, and maybe it will continue someplace, or some new energies will emerge. Just for illustration, I wanted to paste in this screen shot of an article by visionary activist Vimala Thakar, on "Awakening to Total Revolution". Sharif, I would guess this is up your line. The entire article is still available on the "What is Enlightenment" (or "EnlightenNext) web site. </p>
<p>This entire issue of that magazine is rich with thoughts on these themes -- their dedicated issue on "Can enlightenment save the world?"</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j19/">http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j19/</a></p>
<p>Take a look at that for a bunch of highly pertinent resources.</p>
<p>As regards the question, "What are we gonna do?" -- I think I'm with Rob. We gotta do something. Breath deep, stay calm, be spiritual, say your mantras, make your atonement, love and respect your brothers and sisters -- then get some very cool high-powered new tools and methods for dealing with massive complexity and diversity -- and by the grace -- get it done...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/photo/vimala-thakar-awakening-to-total-revolution/next?context=user" class="next_photo_link"><img height="600" width="728" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1433923649?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" alt="Vimala Thakar - Awakening to Total Revolution" id="xj_photo_img_tag"/></a></p> Check out this relevant blog…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-02:6451976:Comment:48162011-11-02T10:40:41.168ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>Check out <a target="_blank" href="http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/what-and-how-we-think-of-people-a-consequential-choice">this relevant blog</a> in which I mention spirit in a manner/context that seems not to repel.</p>
<p>Check out <a target="_blank" href="http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/what-and-how-we-think-of-people-a-consequential-choice">this relevant blog</a> in which I mention spirit in a manner/context that seems not to repel.</p>