2/13 Vital Conversation: Beyond the Earth Summit with Jim Barton - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T08:51:19Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/2-13-vital-conversation-beyond-the-earth-summit-with-jim-barton?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A22821&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThere is a "people's summit"…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-23:6451976:Comment:231492012-02-23T14:31:16.042ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>There is a "people's summit" in Rio at the same time as the official UN gathering. <a href="http://cupuladospovos.org.br/en/" target="_blank">Info here</a>. I'm curious what opportunities those who are following this closely see in this forum. Here's more info:</p>
<blockquote><p>Green economy, false solutions, sustainable development, REDD, collapse of the planet, the commodification of nature, the Peoples’ Summit, the UN Conference on Sustainable Development (UNCSD), Riocentro,…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There is a "people's summit" in Rio at the same time as the official UN gathering. <a href="http://cupuladospovos.org.br/en/" target="_blank">Info here</a>. I'm curious what opportunities those who are following this closely see in this forum. Here's more info:</p>
<blockquote><p>Green economy, false solutions, sustainable development, REDD, collapse of the planet, the commodification of nature, the Peoples’ Summit, the UN Conference on Sustainable Development (UNCSD), Riocentro, Flamengo. The avalanche of terms that arise when it comes to Rio +20 can leave even the most enlightened citizens confused. In an attempt to remedy this potential problem and to organize the minds that are thinking about the future of the planet, we have compiled here a series of elements that define what the People’s Summit is – and what it is not. The People’s Summit in Rio +20 for Social and Environmental Justice, against the commodification of life and in defense of the commons, is:</p>
<ul>
<li>An event to be held between the 15th and the 23rd June 2012 in Flamengo (Rio de Janeiro), organized by the brazilian and the international civil society.</li>
<li>A counterpoint to the United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development (UNCSD) – the official Rio +20 – critical of how governments have dealt with social and environmental issues and proposals to prevent a global collapse.</li>
<li>A parallel event, independent of the official Rio +20.</li>
<li>Critical to the concept of <em>green economy</em>, keyword for the official UN conference. The organizers of the Summit consider this an unsatisfactory concept to deal with the crisis of the planet, caused by the models of capitalist production and consumption.</li>
<li>An opportunity to effectively address the problems that humanity is facing.</li>
<li>A demonstration of the political strength of organized peoples.</li>
<li>“An area of experimentation and visualization of the specific practices that we want to see in the world.”</li>
<li>Anti-capitalist, conscious of the class-related inequalities, anti-racist, anti-patriarchal and anti-homophobic.</li>
<li>A call to reinvent the world.</li>
<li>An event of and for the people.</li>
<li><span>A space free from corporations.</span></li>
<li>A statement of the right to common goods.</li>
<li>A reference to the Global Forum, an event organized by civil society that took place during the Eco 92, the Earth Summit, also in Flamengo Park.</li>
<li>A part of a historical process of accumulation and convergence of local, regional and global struggles.</li>
</ul>
<p>The People’s Summit is not :</p>
<ul>
<li>The United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development (UNCSD). That is to say : the Peoples’ Summit is not the official Rio +20, organized by the UN.</li>
<li>Linked to the official Rio +20 or to the UN anyway. Some organizations present at the Summit also have seats in the official conference, but the event itself is autonomous and independent.</li>
<li>An area of corporations or commodification of nature.</li>
<li>A place for false solutions, but for solutions that have been created by the people for the problems currently experienced on the planet.</li>
<li>Intergovernmental, but international.</li>
<li>A reaffirmation of the green economy as a solution for sustainable development – to the contrary.</li>
<li>Business as usual.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote> Hi KMO and friends,
I am lis…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-17:6451976:Comment:230312012-02-17T16:23:05.062ZRob Wheelerhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobWheeler
<p>Hi KMO and friends, </p>
<p>I am listening now to this excellent interview with Albert Bates right now. Its a great interview but we should tell folks that it goes on for about an hour and it starts a bit slow - but hang in there because there is great stuff about how to deal with our climate challenge - through the UN and otherwise.</p>
<p>By the way, Albert is a friend of mine as I also represent the Global Ecovillage Network, along with him, at the UN. Check out the Ecovillage Training…</p>
<p>Hi KMO and friends, </p>
<p>I am listening now to this excellent interview with Albert Bates right now. Its a great interview but we should tell folks that it goes on for about an hour and it starts a bit slow - but hang in there because there is great stuff about how to deal with our climate challenge - through the UN and otherwise.</p>
<p>By the way, Albert is a friend of mine as I also represent the Global Ecovillage Network, along with him, at the UN. Check out the Ecovillage Training Center folks if you do not know about it yet. A great place to be or visit. Good to know you are doing these podcasts. Thanks,</p>
<p>Rob Wheeler</p> Hey everybody,
My first exper…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-17:6451976:Comment:231132012-02-17T15:10:42.521ZKMOhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KMO
<p>Hey everybody,</p>
<p>My first experience with the Occupy Cafe conference call system was a pretty good one, but I was on Skype, and my satellite internet connection here at <a href="http://www.thefarm.org/etc/" target="_blank">the Farm Ecovillage Training Center</a> was not up to the task of keeping me connected. For next week's call, I'll go to a place where I can get a good cell phone signal and join the call that way.</p>
<p>As Jim Barton mentioned on the call, I am the host of …</p>
<p>Hey everybody,</p>
<p>My first experience with the Occupy Cafe conference call system was a pretty good one, but I was on Skype, and my satellite internet connection here at <a href="http://www.thefarm.org/etc/" target="_blank">the Farm Ecovillage Training Center</a> was not up to the task of keeping me connected. For next week's call, I'll go to a place where I can get a good cell phone signal and join the call that way.</p>
<p>As Jim Barton mentioned on the call, I am the host of <a href="http://c-realm.com/category/podcasts/crealm/" target="_blank">the C-Realm Podcast</a>, and while I have no experience working with the United Nations, Albert K. Bates, the founder of the Ecovillage Training Center does. I spoke with him about the possibilities of working through the U.N. to address anthropogenic climate chaos in<a href="http://c-realm.com/podcasts/crealm/241-recognizing-the-box-were-in/" target="_blank">episode 241: Recognizing the Box We're In</a>. </p> "A free market revolution for…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-17:6451976:Comment:230212012-02-17T05:35:29.907ZMShttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MatthewThierrySwitzer
<p>"A free market revolution for global sustainability."</p>
<p></p>
<p>hahahhaa....oh, was he serious? what makes anyone think that the free market is not what is preventing global sustainability in the first place? capitalism as it is conceived of is based on the rapacious accumulation of resources, and processing those into commodities to be sold for profit and reinvested to start the cycle all over again. if that doesn't happen, the company can no longer be competitive and is rendered…</p>
<p>"A free market revolution for global sustainability."</p>
<p></p>
<p>hahahhaa....oh, was he serious? what makes anyone think that the free market is not what is preventing global sustainability in the first place? capitalism as it is conceived of is based on the rapacious accumulation of resources, and processing those into commodities to be sold for profit and reinvested to start the cycle all over again. if that doesn't happen, the company can no longer be competitive and is rendered irrelevant in the global market.</p>
<p></p>
<p>abolish the market, which inevitably creates classism, poverty, and general despair. there is a better way to distribute goods and services than giving it to whoever can pay the most for them. </p> I've contributed a huge amoun…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-14:6451976:Comment:228212012-02-14T18:42:50.142ZMary Saundershttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarySaunders
<p>I've contributed a huge amount of links and text to a UN thread on Linked In, even knowing the UN does not listen to reports it has paid money to commission, in the sense of then substantially supporting the outcome of those reports (DeSchutter's report on agroecology, easily searched).</p>
<p>I have some empathy for UN officials because wealthy people have the resources to dump on places like Haiti and disregard UN rules. </p>
<p>UN officials are caught in the middle, but at least they will…</p>
<p>I've contributed a huge amount of links and text to a UN thread on Linked In, even knowing the UN does not listen to reports it has paid money to commission, in the sense of then substantially supporting the outcome of those reports (DeSchutter's report on agroecology, easily searched).</p>
<p>I have some empathy for UN officials because wealthy people have the resources to dump on places like Haiti and disregard UN rules. </p>
<p>UN officials are caught in the middle, but at least they will get access to people like the Big-Ag axis of evil.</p>
<p>Lay people do not have access to those people, except indirectly. Possibly UN officials sympathize with lay people but are at a loss as to how to keep the bad boys from their legacy bad behaviors.</p>
<p></p> So, Mary, do you see no value…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-14:6451976:Comment:227712012-02-14T17:26:23.321ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>So, Mary, do you see no value to be gleaned from any UN-related processes or initiatives? And what is the alternative for things that require Global-scale cooperation, or do we give up on that idea altogether? Here's one option, perhaps: <a href="http://www.simpol.org/">http://www.simpol.org/</a> It still relies on national governments though,and their record is arguably worse than the UN's.</p>
<p>So, Mary, do you see no value to be gleaned from any UN-related processes or initiatives? And what is the alternative for things that require Global-scale cooperation, or do we give up on that idea altogether? Here's one option, perhaps: <a href="http://www.simpol.org/">http://www.simpol.org/</a> It still relies on national governments though,and their record is arguably worse than the UN's.</p> What UN proactive response wo…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-14:6451976:Comment:228182012-02-14T16:56:16.336ZMary Saundershttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarySaunders
<p>What UN proactive response would that be exactly? Sending Nepalese troops to Haiti with a novel vibrio organism that has triggered a cholera epidemic? Sending Brazilian troops, when Brazil has a higher murder rate than Haiti? Allowing in god-forsaken pink, contaminated corn seeds that should be locked up at all times, but were not? Letting in formaldehyded trailers that are insufferable in Haiti's heat and allowing those to be used as schools?</p>
<p>The UN could have supported SOIL…</p>
<p>What UN proactive response would that be exactly? Sending Nepalese troops to Haiti with a novel vibrio organism that has triggered a cholera epidemic? Sending Brazilian troops, when Brazil has a higher murder rate than Haiti? Allowing in god-forsaken pink, contaminated corn seeds that should be locked up at all times, but were not? Letting in formaldehyded trailers that are insufferable in Haiti's heat and allowing those to be used as schools?</p>
<p>The UN could have supported SOIL Haiti, a low-tech operation that teaches people how to compost waste, above ground, to pasteurization temperature, so it does not foul drinking sources, and maybe the UN will support SOIL if and when they get a clue. Nicholas Kristof reported on them in the New York Times, so it's not as if the Neo-whatevers couldn't have read about it in an organ they refer to quite a bit. </p>
<p>We need anthems that call out corruption and play on the top 40. We did this in the 70's. How about Anne Feeney's "Have You Been to Jail for Justice" and her corporate welfare song. Our class musicians and comedians need to step up. Can someone channel George Carlin? We're hurting down here, or even just quote him.</p>
<p>What has been done to Haiti is being done to US. To the French and Germans, we are consumers and low-cost labor. French and German red tape is worse than ours. Our economy will go underground, giving the 1% more fine print to lock us up with, when we already win the lock-up competition.</p>
<p>Right/left and all that jazz does not tell anyone much these days. We are beyond mission creep and into the mission-flip zone. Lots of US people don't believe anything said by anybody with two dimes much any more. Getting trust back is not going to be easy.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Ben and friends,
This righ…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-14:6451976:Comment:226982012-02-14T16:17:51.066ZRob Wheelerhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobWheeler
<p>Ben and friends, </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>This right wing extremism in the US is a huge problem that is unfortunately destroying many good and much needed opportunities for local to global change and improvements in how we live together on the planet. And unfortunately, many moderate and conservative Democrats are going along with the Republican swing to the right rather than challenge the idiocy of many of their positions. The US has the worst record of any country in the world in regards to…</p>
<p>Ben and friends, </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>This right wing extremism in the US is a huge problem that is unfortunately destroying many good and much needed opportunities for local to global change and improvements in how we live together on the planet. And unfortunately, many moderate and conservative Democrats are going along with the Republican swing to the right rather than challenge the idiocy of many of their positions. The US has the worst record of any country in the world in regards to signing and more particularly ratifying global treaties - specifically because it takes a 2/3rds vote in the US senate to do so; and the GOP blocks anything that would require more effective approaches to global governance and solving our primary local to global problems. </p>
<p></p>
<p>It does not matter whether programs, policies, and legislation have global reach or not. These same conservative forces block things at all levels of government - from local to global. I organized a local sustainable community campaign in the 1990s that a few right wing conservatives found out about and then began to rail against Agenda 21. They have been attacking local sustainable organizing efforts in the US both before and since. </p>
<p></p>
<p>The question of private property rights vs community well being is a huge issue that really needs to be grappled with in a much more constructive manner. Love Canal and other such environmental catastrophes are a primary case in point. Can individuals and companies do whatever they want, regardless of how the consequences effect others in the community, or is community well being more important? Additionally it can go the other way around. In some neighborhoods it is illegal to hang clothes out on the line, similar to this issue of windmills supposedly destroying the viewshed, because they are considered an unsightly mess by some. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So, somehow we have to do much better at reconciling individual and corporate rights vs well being of community and society as a whole. At the same time we can recognize that many more Americans continue to support the UN, proactive responses to global challenges, etc. One of my concerns with the Occupy Movement is that the notion of needing to achieve consensus can result in the failure to act, if the group is not careful, when action is felt by most to be urgently needed. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So my concern is less that "institutionally based solutions that have global reach will face insurmountable uphill battles" and more that institutionally based solutions of any and all types are increasingly facing insurmountable uphill battles in the US; and unfortunately most of our institutions are controlled by a very powerful, influential, and privileged elite that often do not want to do what is best for the people, nature and/or society.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Still, more and more people get it all of the time. And fortunately there are many enlightened souls on the planet right now. So let us remain optimistic and have hope. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Rob Wheeler</p> One of the things that came u…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-14:6451976:Comment:226972012-02-14T13:45:43.626ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>One of the things that came up in our conversation yesterday was the degree of anti-UN sentiment, much of it related to New World Order conspiracy theories. And these views have now made it into the GOP "mainstream," as well as some elements of the Left. <a href="http://grist.org/politics/paranoia-strikes-deep-gop-exposes-dangerous-u-n-sustainability-plot/" target="_blank">Grist has a piece up this morning on GOP efforts to oppose</a> Agenda 21 and ICLEI, two long-standing initiatives for…</p>
<p>One of the things that came up in our conversation yesterday was the degree of anti-UN sentiment, much of it related to New World Order conspiracy theories. And these views have now made it into the GOP "mainstream," as well as some elements of the Left. <a href="http://grist.org/politics/paranoia-strikes-deep-gop-exposes-dangerous-u-n-sustainability-plot/" target="_blank">Grist has a piece up this morning on GOP efforts to oppose</a> Agenda 21 and ICLEI, two long-standing initiatives for sustainability, have come under particular attack. From Grist:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Republican National Committee — the group that shapes the national GOP political platform, devises campaign strategies, promotes candidates, and bashes all things Obama — passed a resolution in January warning Americans of a sinister plot hidden in a United Nations report called Agenda 21. Short of suggesting that we all wear tinfoil hats and keep an eye out for contrails, the RNC would have been hard-pressed to put itself further on the wacko fringe.</p>
<p>Here’s the windup to the resolution, unearthed by the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/us/activists-fight-green-projects-seeing-un-plot.html?_r=1"><em>New York Times</em></a> on Feb. 3:</p>
<p>WHEREAS, the United Nations Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of extreme environmentalism, social engineering, and global political control … and,</p>
<p>WHEREAS, the United Nations Agenda 21 is being covertly pushed into local communities throughout the United States of America through the International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives (ICLEI) through local “sustainable development” policies such as Smart Growth, Wildlands Project, Resilient Cities, Regional Visioning Projects, and other “Green” or “Alternative” projects; and,</p>
<p>WHEREAS, this United Nations Agenda 21 plan of radical so-called “sustainable development” views the American way of life of private property ownership, single family homes, private car ownership and individual travel choices, and privately owned farms; all as destructive to the environment …</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Given that there are also many on the Left that embrace New World Order conspiracy theories (e.g the Thrive movie), I am concerned that we are getting to a point where any institutionally based solutions that have global reach will face insurmountable uphill battles, at least within the US.</p> You can connect to a long thr…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-02-11:6451976:Comment:227502012-02-11T00:30:34.058ZMary Saundershttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarySaunders
<p>You can connect to a long thread of discussion on this topic on Linked In at the Systems Thinking World UN topic.</p>
<p>One of the commentors put up a link to a cartoon with a boat loaded in the front with suits talking among themselves while a woman in the back of the boat is trying to alert them to the waterfall they are just a short distance from. </p>
<p>So far, the UN has not been able to do very much with their own research on agroecology, while U.S. corporations have broken rules to…</p>
<p>You can connect to a long thread of discussion on this topic on Linked In at the Systems Thinking World UN topic.</p>
<p>One of the commentors put up a link to a cartoon with a boat loaded in the front with suits talking among themselves while a woman in the back of the boat is trying to alert them to the waterfall they are just a short distance from. </p>
<p>So far, the UN has not been able to do very much with their own research on agroecology, while U.S. corporations have broken rules to take dangerous seeds and faulty single-wides to Haiti, to accompany the cholera organisms imported from Nepal by troops. </p>
<p>Then there are troops from Brazil, which has a higher murder rate than Haiti. </p>
<p>The UN needs to let women in to explain that obstacles to empowering women and other marginalized people have got to come down if we are to get all the brains we need to first base.</p>
<p>Supporting SOIL Haiti with properly-scaled, above-ground sewage treatment would be a nice start.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>