5/28 Vital Conversation: Memorial Day Reflections - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T02:07:03Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/5-28-vital-conversation-memorial-day-reflections?feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe NY Times is out today wit…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-29:6451976:Comment:255152012-05-29T14:42:33.310ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>The NY Times is out today with <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?_r=1&hp" target="_blank">a lengthy expose of the whole process of targeted assassination</a>, in which Brennan, the "death czar" mentioned in the Salon piece Mary cited above, features prominently.</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Mr. Obama has placed himself at the helm of a top secret “nominations” process to designate terrorists for kill or capture, of which the capture…</span></p>
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<p>The NY Times is out today with <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?_r=1&hp" target="_blank">a lengthy expose of the whole process of targeted assassination</a>, in which Brennan, the "death czar" mentioned in the Salon piece Mary cited above, features prominently.</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Mr. Obama has placed himself at the helm of a top secret “nominations” process to designate terrorists for kill or capture, of which the capture part has become largely theoretical. He had vowed to align the fight against Al Qaeda with American values; the chart, introducing people whose deaths he might soon be asked to order, underscored just what a moral and legal conundrum this could be...</span></p>
<p><span>Beside the president at every step is his counterterrorism adviser, John O. Brennan, who is variously compared by colleagues to a dogged police detective, tracking terrorists from his cavelike office in the White House basement, or a priest whose blessing has become indispensable to Mr. Obama, echoing the president’s attempt to apply the “just war” theories of Christian philosophers to a brutal modern conflict...</span></p>
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<p><span>Tellingly, however, the Times piece focuses on the challenge of avoiding killing "innocent people" who happen to be in the vicinity of the "legitimate targets" they have identified, without ever mentioning the core problem of presuming guilt of anyone without due process and the sanctioning of assassination as a tool.</span></p> Here are some similarly confl…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-29:6451976:Comment:255122012-05-29T14:31:36.120ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Here are some similarly conflicted sentiments about honoring our soldiers and the use of the term "hero" <a href="http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/935592/chris_hayes_on_memorial_day%3A_glamorizing_and_justifying_war_with_the_term_%22hero%22/" target="_blank">from Chris Hayes on MSNBC:</a> </p>
<blockquote><p><span>I feel… uncomfortable, about the word because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don’t want to obviously…</span></p>
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<p>Here are some similarly conflicted sentiments about honoring our soldiers and the use of the term "hero" <a href="http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/935592/chris_hayes_on_memorial_day%3A_glamorizing_and_justifying_war_with_the_term_%22hero%22/" target="_blank">from Chris Hayes on MSNBC:</a> </p>
<blockquote><p><span>I feel… uncomfortable, about the word because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don’t want to obviously desecrate or disrespect memory of anyone that’s fallen, and obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism, you know, hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers, and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic. But maybe I’m wrong about that.</span></p>
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<p>How we wrestle with these things! I have compassion for these men and women and for the terrible sacrifices they have made. I have compassion for the struggles they must endure as so many of them question the whole point of the wars they are/were fighting. And I have compassion for those who do not question this as well--for their choice of self-sacrifice in the name of a greater good.</p>
<p>I am also very sad that so many who seek to put others before themselves end up in the military, of all places. We are so desperately in need of new economic forms that allow people to offer their greatest gifts in service to the whole and in ways that are healing and constructive, based in empathy, love and compassion. And perhaps we are closer to being able to provide such opportunities than it appears. It is so tempting to think that some giant government program is the means for providing this alternative, but what if the ability to do so is at our fingertips, right here in our communities?</p> Interesting read, Mary. Thx f…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-28:6451976:Comment:255032012-05-28T17:09:33.889Zjules sansabrihttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/julessansabri
<p>Interesting read, Mary. Thx for sharing link. </p>
<p>Interesting read, Mary. Thx for sharing link. </p> We need to contemplate doing…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-28:6451976:Comment:252002012-05-28T16:44:59.250ZMary Saundershttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarySaunders
<p>We need to contemplate doing something about this</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/john_brennans_new_power/" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/john_brennans_new_power/</a></p>
<p>If you search death czar, you will find all parts of the thinking political spectrum upset and weighing in about this. Reaching out across boundaries to deal with it can be an important mission for those inclined to protect U.S. people from actual danger.</p>
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<p>We need to contemplate doing something about this</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/john_brennans_new_power/" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/john_brennans_new_power/</a></p>
<p>If you search death czar, you will find all parts of the thinking political spectrum upset and weighing in about this. Reaching out across boundaries to deal with it can be an important mission for those inclined to protect U.S. people from actual danger.</p>
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<p></p> It's a great question, Ben. Y…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-28:6451976:Comment:251972012-05-28T16:35:58.405ZJohn Backmanhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/JohnBackman
<p>It's a great question, Ben. You and I are essentially in the same place: desiring to honor the war dead (perhaps not just "our" war dead?) while witnessing to war's ultimate absurdity. In wrestling with this, I tend to focus narrowly on the motivations and cost to those in the military. Many have given their lives; many others have given up important life stages, the chance to watch their children grow, even their mental and emotional stability. They did this (or so I assume) because they…</p>
<p>It's a great question, Ben. You and I are essentially in the same place: desiring to honor the war dead (perhaps not just "our" war dead?) while witnessing to war's ultimate absurdity. In wrestling with this, I tend to focus narrowly on the motivations and cost to those in the military. Many have given their lives; many others have given up important life stages, the chance to watch their children grow, even their mental and emotional stability. They did this (or so I assume) because they saw a need to sacrifice those cherished personal lives for something larger. I may vehemently disagree with the cause they fought for, but I can still honor the fact of their self-sacrifice--particularly as my own faith tradition (Christianity) calls for a similar brand of self-sacrifice. In that way, they truly are heroes.</p> Little Bits of Tid-
US vetera…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-05-28:6451976:Comment:251942012-05-28T16:33:21.323Zjules sansabrihttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/julessansabri
<p><strong>Little Bits of Tid</strong>-</p>
<p>US veterans comprise less than one percent of the population (300+million). US <em>politicians</em> (111th congress) who are veterans total around four and a half percent (121). Of those, roughly twenty five percent are combat veterans (30). The rest served in champagne units <em>well away</em> from any real danger. The US spends roughly forty three percent of the…</p>
<p><strong>Little Bits of Tid</strong>-</p>
<p>US veterans comprise less than one percent of the population (300+million). US <em>politicians</em> (111th congress) who are veterans total around four and a half percent (121). Of those, roughly twenty five percent are combat veterans (30). The rest served in champagne units <em>well away</em> from any real danger. The US spends roughly forty three percent of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures" target="_blank">world's military expenditures</a>. The US has the largest defense budget in the world. (533.8 bil fy 2010 with an additional 130bil for the "war on terrorism").</p>
<p>Our vets today are (typically) economically disenfranchised <em>before</em> and <em>after</em> they serve. They are asked to do unspeakable things and are spiritually and emotionally compromised when they return home. Some will become addicted, homeless, and fade from the public psyche. </p>
<p>They are <em>our children</em>. If it takes a village to raise a child, today I'm wondering what will it take <strong>for the village to make some changes?</strong></p>
<p><strong><br/></strong>I do what I can to help my fellow veterans cope with learning "life skills" and to reintegrate into society. I'm hoping others will too. I'm also hoping that someday those in leadership will be held accountable for their actions, and I feel a deep sense of responsibility for my role in allowing these things to happen.</p>
<p>j</p>
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