8/6 Vital Conversation: Friends of Lakota - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T05:21:54Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/8-6-vital-conversation-friends-of-lakota?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A29294&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIt's true that I'm a lifelong…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-09-04:6451976:Comment:312952012-09-04T14:54:08.625ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>It's true that I'm a lifelong learner with a college degree. Sorry about that. It's not true that as I approach my seventh decade I utterly lack human experiences. Sorry we could only pass in the night.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's true that I'm a lifelong learner with a college degree. Sorry about that. It's not true that as I approach my seventh decade I utterly lack human experiences. Sorry we could only pass in the night.</p>
<p></p> Mushin,
I've been away from c…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-24:6451976:Comment:302692012-08-24T15:51:15.049ZStephanie Nestlerodehttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/StephanieNestlerode
<p>Mushin,</p>
<p>I've been away from computers at a Youth Peace Summit. Youth are what give me hope for the future ....</p>
<p>From the perspective of my Apache teacher, when you take away someone else's right to be, you give up your own. My teacher's grandfather rode with Geronimo. After many broken treaties, Geronimo saw clearly that the government would not allow him to be, so our government gave up their own right to be. He decided he'd rather be dead than try to work with such an…</p>
<p>Mushin,</p>
<p>I've been away from computers at a Youth Peace Summit. Youth are what give me hope for the future ....</p>
<p>From the perspective of my Apache teacher, when you take away someone else's right to be, you give up your own. My teacher's grandfather rode with Geronimo. After many broken treaties, Geronimo saw clearly that the government would not allow him to be, so our government gave up their own right to be. He decided he'd rather be dead than try to work with such an untrustworthy partner.</p>
<p>What I believe we want to put forward from this tradition is that everyone has a basic right to be ... and that includes a right to be different and to disagree with other opinions. We also have a right to love, growth and to gain wisdom.</p>
<p>I had adopted indian wisdoms into my life and my work for over a decade when I discovered family links to indian history. My mother's side is choctaw and english based on the trail of tears to Oklahoma. This heritage was hidden as the family chose to 'pass for white' early on. On the other side, my great grandfather, an immigrant from famine in Switzerland, survived the Sioux uprising in Minnesota in 1862. So our sad history lives in me from all sides.</p>
<p>I'm committed to healing the past by bringing native wisdom into today. A group at Harvard studied governance on reservations and discovered that those applying old ways are doing a better job. They concluded that all reservations should do so. That's great for as far as it goes, but I have news. ALL governing bodies should apply these wisdoms.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like you are on the path to making that happen. You mention Child and Family Welfare. I am a social worker by training and have worked with many social service agencies as a consultant. How might I contribute to making the change in social financial entitlements?</p>
<p>I've been connected to 3M in the past. They helped our hospital become one of the first in the country to adopt total quality management. Dallas mentioned that they want to see evidence of collaboration. I'm guessing I could help in that regard if I understand the nature of what they want to see.</p>
<p>I will check out the book. I believe there is a sacred geometry to wisdom .....</p>
<p>Yes, let's set up a time for a skype conversation. More to unfold!</p>
<p>S</p> I accept you opinion and it h…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-12:6451976:Comment:297262012-08-12T14:37:03.812ZMushinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PatricRoberts
<p>I accept you opinion and it has truth as well. What i see is I am free and make choices every moment. I am actually content and don't live in fear, and minding my own business not everyone else. At the same time am open to appreciative dialog and basically refrain from politics, religion, and prejudicial absolutes. Liberation in my assessment is an interior freedom not necessarily reflected in external conditional situations. My interest in this appreciative conversation is mutual…</p>
<p>I accept you opinion and it has truth as well. What i see is I am free and make choices every moment. I am actually content and don't live in fear, and minding my own business not everyone else. At the same time am open to appreciative dialog and basically refrain from politics, religion, and prejudicial absolutes. Liberation in my assessment is an interior freedom not necessarily reflected in external conditional situations. My interest in this appreciative conversation is mutual liberation in the angst we share. Your questioning of why and assertions are limited beliefs in my assessment and closes down any speculations of things to do together, as well as invalidates my experience and others (like many Lakota people) as veterans. I offer this agreement between you and I (we) (us) trust is created in actions not intellectual arguments "I invite. request/offer X by Y and I promise X by Y." Here is where all the rubber hits the road and Mark your identity and narrative is created with others. You control this in freedom and have the right to say "no" to whatever interactions you invent today. What are going to do and what commitments do you have today in service? Getting to work even if it's volunteering normally helps solve the fixations on why pretty quickly in my assessment.</p>
<p>I stand with my fellow veterans and totally oppose the imperial coercive deceptions operating in the political wars occurring since 911. I am especially concerned with King George's criminal conduct and lack of any serious accountability in American citizenry for loss of public trust that has followed. If we can not reflect on a decade in a meaningful appreciative inquiry in a civil manner of discourse, it appears an impossibility to reflect on the bigger picture in hundreds and thousands of years.</p>
<p>Thanks </p> Stephanie,
I agree and have t…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-12:6451976:Comment:295962012-08-12T14:01:36.616ZMushinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PatricRoberts
<p>Stephanie,</p>
<p>I agree and have the same desire as the founder of The Order of Earth 10 years old. As Dallas offered "one man at a time healing the emotional impoverishment" I submit the notion is equally applicable to wisdom's one language at a time. The trap I have experienced in my journey is collapsing the weaving with the weavers in communications where everything and all distinctions mean the same thing, and end up meaning nothing. For instance indigenous people have distinctions…</p>
<p>Stephanie,</p>
<p>I agree and have the same desire as the founder of The Order of Earth 10 years old. As Dallas offered "one man at a time healing the emotional impoverishment" I submit the notion is equally applicable to wisdom's one language at a time. The trap I have experienced in my journey is collapsing the weaving with the weavers in communications where everything and all distinctions mean the same thing, and end up meaning nothing. For instance indigenous people have distinctions in oral utterances that actually are explicit understandings of the implicit wisdom in ancestral enactive social relationships in a timelessness. The utterance of wolakota is an invitation into a voluminous experience to embody in social experience in friendship that essentially requires visiting one another's daily lives like eating together not fixing anything. I appreciated how Dallas spoke to the fixer's, government programs, health, education, judicial breakdowns of programs that simply don't work and never have. I don't care about the why? Rather, what does work for them as a self organizing unit of our humanity? It appears that allowing them to have dignity in their language and culture is all they are asking for. Sounds good to me and in the clearing I am learning something about these called "savages" in reality. The real savage is one who demands obedience to see a certain way and negates the freedom of the other to express a different view, such as to be an American you must speak English. Really!</p>
<p>"The Sacred Sphere" (2012) by Paul Burley is an interesting offering that intersects the weaving of the Lakota wisdom iconic continuum of symbols with the universal pathways throughout human history. The Lakota did this without ever writing a word. I find that stunning and worthy of attention in learning something about who I may possibly be as a human being? </p>
<p>I submit that in the end the weaving of the weavers is the meeting together in unity at the universal altar in the human heart felt senses of our humanness in solidarity as a specie. "All that rises must converge" and many are one, and one is many, and each specific unit of our humanity is a golden thread in our new garment being revealed in wholeness, maturity and transcendence of this industrial age. </p>
<p>As shared early on in this conversation the Lakota refuse to settle in regards to the Black Hills of South Dakota. I submit that is not an ownership treaty breakdown rather a spiritual declaration that is the truth of being for this unit of our humanity. How can anyone take it from them? When in fact it is thousands of years embedded in an ancient social reality in their embodied experience as a culture? My stance as a friend is the "Discovery Doctrine of the Papal Bulls" is what created this current breakdown for the Lakota people and current Wall Street notions of ownership in globalization, and correcting mistakes require's facing the truth in our historical swept along cultural drift. I do not consider it a legal material issue of just a broken promise, rather a spiritual issue concerning the Declaration of Human Rights and Justice for any of the original stewards who were living on a holiday before colonialism and imperialism set forth to occupy the America's and created poverty, injustice and patriarchal wars with Kings and Queens. </p>
<p>Dallas's statements concerning the "glitter" as the essential distraction in the current fragmented dysfunctional behaviors in his village is interesting. How much do we really need to be happy? De~growth is not even a political conversation in this 2012 election. I am concerned because what we are growing into is a suicidal homicidal pact to kill the planet in the next few years. What he claimed was very little is needed when the "inner glitter" is coming from an inner altar in social relations having dignity in the web of life! I agree, and this is an opening for weavers to weave around as friends of Lakota and create the well functioning integrated healthy systems I know you are committed to in your professional life. </p>
<p>My assessment is you have a tremendous skill set in this emergent conversation and caring concern for heath and well being of all people. You are truly beautiful in caring and one of the major initiatives happening is how to get the social financial entitlements for "Child and Family Welfare" from the Federal level of government mandates in law out of any State control and directly administered by tribes in America? Imagine an interactive designed system where traditional elder's apply "what owns them in the wisdom continuum" in a self organizing manner and recovering the holiday they previously knew so well before the "glitter" virus infected them. </p>
<p>Dallas is a visionary and the Bush Foundation (3M) thinks he is alone when in fact he is connecting seven council fires in a bigger game from inside where the real "glitter" is and I submit this movement eventually has impact on all original tribal right to recover thriving languages and cultures. And one way you can participate is become a part of the endeavor as an NGO friend in the "Maka Si Tomni Clearinghouse." </p>
<p>Let's continue to weave together as "Friends of Lakota" and the next presenter(s) may really light up the fire in your belly and stimulate expansive creative intelligence in future weaving collaborative efforts! I would love to speak with by Skype if attention permits, orderofearth_patric, I want to introduce you to a few others interested in the weaving in an effective manner.</p>
<p>Thanks </p> Dyck,
Yes, yes, yes! I love…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-12:6451976:Comment:295952012-08-12T12:32:31.037ZMushinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PatricRoberts
<p>Dyck,</p>
<p>Yes, yes, yes! I love what you are calling forth is face to face engagement and what Jitendra is pointing to that transcends initial appreciative inquiry and dialog. In the end we desire passionately more than quick sex on the Internet. There is cognitive research today that is qualifying that the social networking happening is a shallow beginning and what we really desire is to draw together in the presence of one another in heart felt manner eating, praying, passing…</p>
<p>Dyck,</p>
<p>Yes, yes, yes! I love what you are calling forth is face to face engagement and what Jitendra is pointing to that transcends initial appreciative inquiry and dialog. In the end we desire passionately more than quick sex on the Internet. There is cognitive research today that is qualifying that the social networking happening is a shallow beginning and what we really desire is to draw together in the presence of one another in heart felt manner eating, praying, passing feather, singing and dancing in knowing one another. Let's take a step together and design a gathering in your community for the "Friends of Lakota" and you may be surprised at the experience and the hoop dancing that occurs in movement creating liberation in a clearing for learning in our new story. I loved Isabel's commenting on Cainan's integrity concerning being stuck in stories. The medium of the cafe opens a window and yes I tend to enjoy writing because I can be explicit about the implications being experienced in a conversation. Today we live in a world where if you can't reduce an insight into a 140 characters in the Twittering Universe your considered verbose. So be it! I assume my audience are serious people interested in creating a transformational community in appreciative inquiry and dialog specifying the domain of conversation in inquiry, and being vigilant in not collapsing opinions and personal experience. Yet, as you point to what we also desire is to know one other authentically and spontaneously in love, caring, and sharing our stories, how, where, when and who we are in our this emergent conditional situation we want to change. I assess that is pretty cool stuff between elders and children today. Dallas has that elder response in his body by hoop dancing for years as an intern in schools yearly. The praxis he enactively embodied in the past is now showing new fruit in his gatherings and the "Friends of Lakota" is really about understanding our mutual liberation in the "Tree of Life" he articulated in presencing himself and how the hoop included the entire 360 degrees in the horizon surrounding him in natural law. What is most interesting about the Lakota people in my assessment is they have a fierceness in reality of natural law while also having the greatest sense of humor in the conditional situation that is constantly opening a clearing for learning with one another in a manner of human dignity. I call that balance and am a beginner in this regard and look forward to laughing together soon. Dyck my sadness is only a momentary reflection that arises out of love for peace, justice and human dignity. Feeling the sour fruit on the tree of experience opens the capacity to feel the sweetness of being alive and our nearness to one another, and the meaning of friendship. In cognitive science we now know that all languages arose from Homo sapiens amans passionate desire to draw closer to one another not arrogance, aggressive and coercive patterns. Patriarchy is a cultural pattern and observer error (mistake) we created and we can change easily by observing what we do, when do, the things we do. </p>
<p>What is the next step you propose in this regard? I still remember the list you shared at the GatCafe and it was authentic to the moment. I submit our pain, sadness and losses are the best part of who we are and birth's elder wisdom at any age. </p>
<p></p> I'm not finding your note whe…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-10:6451976:Comment:298162012-08-10T14:53:26.632ZStephanie Nestlerodehttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/StephanieNestlerode
<p>I'm not finding your note where you asked for it, but Paula Underwood's book is The Walking People. you can find it and her other works at <a href="http://www.tribeoftwopress.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tribeoftwopress.com/</a> her daughter sells the books<br/><br/>best wishes!</p>
<p>I'm not finding your note where you asked for it, but Paula Underwood's book is The Walking People. you can find it and her other works at <a href="http://www.tribeoftwopress.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tribeoftwopress.com/</a> her daughter sells the books<br/><br/>best wishes!</p> I so appreciate this circle's…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-10:6451976:Comment:296332012-08-10T13:22:50.305ZStephanie Nestlerodehttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/StephanieNestlerode
<p>I so appreciate this circle's willingness to witness and honor our pain-full past. All the roles being played are sorely needed. For me, my mind turns to the practical. I believe in caterpillar strategies - finding resources from the present to bridge into the future. Where might we find resources to fund Dallas Chief Eagle's miraculous healing work and other projects designed to heal and bridge our cultures? Our futures are shared. I wonder, in materials designed to get indian votes…</p>
<p>I so appreciate this circle's willingness to witness and honor our pain-full past. All the roles being played are sorely needed. For me, my mind turns to the practical. I believe in caterpillar strategies - finding resources from the present to bridge into the future. Where might we find resources to fund Dallas Chief Eagle's miraculous healing work and other projects designed to heal and bridge our cultures? Our futures are shared. I wonder, in materials designed to get indian votes for Obama, it mentions that he has dedicated money to helping indians restore their health and ancient ways. Does anyone have connections that would help us locate this resource?</p>
<p>Decision making tools were requested. I'm attaching one - The Chicken Scratch Path. It would tell us that our choices have gotten us way out in one direction. We can't just jet speed our way back to a healthier, co-creative place. It will happen just one decision at a time. Yet history is full of stories that played out over generations .... like Chaco Canyon in New Mexico ... let's retrieve that patience and commitment.</p> Mushin, this has got to be a…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-10:6451976:Comment:296322012-08-10T03:05:49.928ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Mushin, this has got to be a record length comment. And I took the time to read and digest it (except for when you copied a quote of another). It is sadness and I want to hear you and your story. It is because you've called on something in me to HEAR and care about <em>your</em> story. I wonder if I would be capable of the compassion to be with you and engage you for 8 hours like the Latota's do with their young men. I'd like to do this. You deserve it and I deserve it. I mean it.</p>
<p>Mushin, this has got to be a record length comment. And I took the time to read and digest it (except for when you copied a quote of another). It is sadness and I want to hear you and your story. It is because you've called on something in me to HEAR and care about <em>your</em> story. I wonder if I would be capable of the compassion to be with you and engage you for 8 hours like the Latota's do with their young men. I'd like to do this. You deserve it and I deserve it. I mean it.</p> Thank you David. Since your…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-10:6451976:Comment:297122012-08-10T02:52:22.307ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Thank you David. Since your body isn't relevant in this format, I have to suffice with your sequences of words... and whatever appears 'between them'. And between them I sense you are coming from a hypothetical or academic basis rather than actually having ever been lost at sea... let alone experiencing your life's utter smallness and lack of control (yet awesum grandness).</p>
<p>I think I'm getting your intent of a deeper metaphorical meaning. Granted the question remains "how can I as…</p>
<p>Thank you David. Since your body isn't relevant in this format, I have to suffice with your sequences of words... and whatever appears 'between them'. And between them I sense you are coming from a hypothetical or academic basis rather than actually having ever been lost at sea... let alone experiencing your life's utter smallness and lack of control (yet awesum grandness).</p>
<p>I think I'm getting your intent of a deeper metaphorical meaning. Granted the question remains "how can I as a single wave, locate myself in an ocean?" But, it appears the larger question obviates the possiblility there exists a shore at all.</p>
<p>Dyck</p>
<p> </p> Yes, such eloquence Stephanie…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-08-08:6451976:Comment:297072012-08-08T02:33:02.149ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Yes, such eloquence Stephanie. You've reached your hand deeply to within me. I've been intriqued with supposed opposites for a while... they may as well turn out to be on ends of a same contuinum as context changes. Dyck</p>
<p>Yes, such eloquence Stephanie. You've reached your hand deeply to within me. I've been intriqued with supposed opposites for a while... they may as well turn out to be on ends of a same contuinum as context changes. Dyck</p>