A New Economy-- Exploring the Heart of Sustainability - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T17:48:25Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/a-new-economy-exploring-the-heart-of-sustainability?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A4283&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOngoing Alternative Economics…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-27:6451976:Comment:140102011-11-27T21:27:45.718ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
Ongoing Alternative Economics discussion at TED Talks: <a href="http://www.ted.com/conversations/6863/what_alternatives_are_there_to.html?c=366336" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/conversations/6863/what_alternatives_are_there_to.html?c=366336</a>
Ongoing Alternative Economics discussion at TED Talks: <a href="http://www.ted.com/conversations/6863/what_alternatives_are_there_to.html?c=366336" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/conversations/6863/what_alternatives_are_there_to.html?c=366336</a> He may not return here. Look…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-23:6451976:Comment:129342011-11-23T20:27:51.198ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>He may not return here. <a href="http://http://transitionvermont.ning.com/profiles/blog/list" target="_blank">Look here (not only on this page</a><a target="_blank" href="http://transitionvermont.ning.com/profiles/blog/list">)</a>.</p>
<p>He may not return here. <a href="http://http://transitionvermont.ning.com/profiles/blog/list" target="_blank">Look here (not only on this page</a><a target="_blank" href="http://transitionvermont.ning.com/profiles/blog/list">)</a>.</p> Robert, I've delayed posting…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-23:6451976:Comment:123972011-11-23T18:31:03.961ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>Robert, I've delayed posting any reply to your note to Gary so that I wouldn't step into a controversy. For my part, I agree with the importance of common definitions. However, I doubt that we can expect that standard in an informal global dialogue such as this. I see you have been contributing many thoughtful posts and that you make great efforts to be clear and consistent, but I also feel that you are expecting too much from this thread. Few people have the time to read many posts,…</p>
<p>Robert, I've delayed posting any reply to your note to Gary so that I wouldn't step into a controversy. For my part, I agree with the importance of common definitions. However, I doubt that we can expect that standard in an informal global dialogue such as this. I see you have been contributing many thoughtful posts and that you make great efforts to be clear and consistent, but I also feel that you are expecting too much from this thread. Few people have the time to read many posts, much less all of them, so while this thread is about sharing ideas such as those you post, it might be counterproductive for you to work here to try to achieve the goals that you laud or even change minds, but instead to merely share your ideas as concisely as possible so as to begin to meet others whom share your views. I think it would be a loss to this board if you burnt yourself out here by trying to accomplish more than might be possible because I view your contributions as exceptional. Thank you again for your feedback on the material I posted and linked. I welcome more of the same from you, and I wonder if you can share a link here to something of yours that you've posted here or elsewhere that encapsulates the heart of your own philosophy?</p> You have "no idea" because yo…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-16:6451976:Comment:98862011-11-16T19:02:50.063ZRobert Riversonghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>You have "no idea" because you fail to consider that it is you who do not understand.</p>
<p>You have "no idea" because you fail to consider that it is you who do not understand.</p> I do believe that you misunde…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-16:6451976:Comment:95862011-11-16T18:37:30.779ZGailhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/Gail
<p>I do believe that you misunderstand. I have no idea how you can draw such a conclusion unless you do misunderstand.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
<p>I do believe that you misunderstand. I have no idea how you can draw such a conclusion unless you do misunderstand.</p>
<p>Peace</p> "Isn't it curious how two peo…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-16:6451976:Comment:98802011-11-16T17:48:50.002ZRobert Riversonghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobertRiversong
<p><em>"Isn't it curious how two people look at the same situation and draw different conclusions. I am convinced that the marriage of the kingcraft and the priestcraft has brought our circumstances to us today. Relative to the entire recorded history of mankind, science is still in its youth. BUT - it is maturing, and the idea of a clockwork universe with its physical causes and effects is now being discarded in favor of one that supports the inherent value of the…</em></p>
<p><em>"Isn't it curious how two people look at the same situation and draw different conclusions. I am convinced that the marriage of the kingcraft and the priestcraft has brought our circumstances to us today. Relative to the entire recorded history of mankind, science is still in its youth. BUT - it is maturing, and the idea of a clockwork universe with its physical causes and effects is now being discarded in favor of one that supports the inherent value of the individual."</em></p>
<p>Of course, differences in conclusion are heavily determined by the scope of the world a person is willing (or able) to consider. We forget that "the entire recorded history of mankind" is but a tiny fragment of the entire history of humanity on earth, since it was only quite lately that we began to abstract and objectify the world into written symbols on the page. Most of our human experience (and all of it during the millions of years we were living in harmony on the planet), were based on direct, intuitive knowledge of a living, relational, reflective, intelligent and responsive world.</p>
<p>The "clockwork universe" of mechanistic cause and effect has <strong>not</strong> been discarded by modern science but merely overlayed at the quantum particle and cosmological levels with a more refined, probabilistic understanding. But that new, deeper perspective has nothing whatsoever to do with individualism. In fact, if anything, it undermines the old conceit that there exist any isolated, individual objects, and cutting-edge evolutionary biology and epi-genetics has thoroughly eliminated the notion of sovereign, self-governing and self-evolving individual living organisms.</p> Isn't it curious how two peop…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-16:6451976:Comment:99442011-11-16T12:37:55.816ZGailhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/Gail
<p>Isn't it curious how two people look at the same situation and draw different conclusions. I am convinced that the marriage of the kingcraft and the priestcraft has brought our circumstances to us today. Relative to the entire recorded history of mankind, science is still in its youth. BUT - it is maturing, and the idea of a clockwork universe with its physical causes and effects is now being discarded in favor of one that supports the inherent value of the individual.</p>
<p>Given this,…</p>
<p>Isn't it curious how two people look at the same situation and draw different conclusions. I am convinced that the marriage of the kingcraft and the priestcraft has brought our circumstances to us today. Relative to the entire recorded history of mankind, science is still in its youth. BUT - it is maturing, and the idea of a clockwork universe with its physical causes and effects is now being discarded in favor of one that supports the inherent value of the individual.</p>
<p>Given this, I will put my faith in the <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>new</strong></span> science. Amazing things are being discovered and previously unquantifiable ideas are being quantified. People are not using their own power to provide for their needs because they do not know that they <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>have</strong></span> this power.</p>
<p>Your example of (G. Scott) Williamson's certainty that health was as recognizeable as disease is now coming to fruition through research in the field of consciousness. We do indeed have the power to grow health and peace and the end to crime and violence. It doesn't take a god and it doesn't take a scientist. It takes nothing more than a people willing to gather in groups to meditate.</p>
<p>Many governments of the world and most major universities have conducted studies. There are now more than 1,000 studies conducted, and not a single study has been able to refute this claim. The first study - published in the mid 80s - said that if ONE PERCENT of a region's population meditates together, that crime, violence, visits to emergency rooms, psychiatric admissions, house fires, traffic accidents, illnesses requiring medication, and other quantifiable social ills are reduced by 16% while the opposite increases. What are the quantifiable opposites? Prosperity was increased (new business filings and stock market response). Creativity was increased (patent filings, openings of galleries and artistic ventures). Social strengthening increased (more street festivals and public gatherings). I don't remember the details at this moment, but there are more benefits - from personal health to community health.</p>
<p>We should be meditating together. It will make us look less threatening. It will re-establish our connection with ourselves and one another. It will reduce social ills in our communities. If done globally, it will end war. It will reduce fear (by reducing activity in the amygdala). It will cause us to make better long-term decisions (by raising IQs and thickening the frontal cortex) - all of this as a beginning. It will increase creativity that allows us to dare step outside of the conventional worldview that diminishes humankind.</p> Gary, you are very considerat…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-15:6451976:Comment:93652011-11-15T18:44:42.056ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>Gary, you are very considerate, but I really don't expect more than you desire to do with this.</p>
<p>I'm glad to try to answer inquiries about our model that are not addressed in the material posted at sunmoney.org or reconomy.net. In that regard, let me try to tackle your definition question again. <br></br><br></br>Perhaps in the most important sense, imo, poverty and prosperity are things that an individual recognizes when s/he sees them. As I see them, prosperity is the condition where…</p>
<p>Gary, you are very considerate, but I really don't expect more than you desire to do with this.</p>
<p>I'm glad to try to answer inquiries about our model that are not addressed in the material posted at sunmoney.org or reconomy.net. In that regard, let me try to tackle your definition question again. <br/><br/>Perhaps in the most important sense, imo, poverty and prosperity are things that an individual recognizes when s/he sees them. As I see them, prosperity is the condition where essentials are not lacking and so growth seems very possible, while poverty is the condition where essentials are limited such that growth seems blocked. Many people today believe that a sustainable Earth that provides for all of us will require some rationing and an end to growth. I disagree because the SunMoney system provides all essential commodities, and more, to every participating local community, and finances continuous growth of community wealth -- as distinguished from providing for unlimited growth of any community's population or unlimited wealth for any individual.<br/><br/>In a sunmoney system, we have the interdependent wealth of genuine community, and so each economic link increases each member's prosperity by some measure, My belief is that although most people think they want independent wealth they are never satisfied because what they really want is to dance, which requires community.</p>
<p>Also, you guessed right -- all energy purchased with SunMoney is local and renewable, which will often help permit discounting. This guarantees that money spent on energy tends to stay local, where it can be used for every sort of local development, but not necessarily that stores of energy increase. Other reasons we are able to discount are covered at the sites.</p>
<p>As for the nature of the currency - regional, bioregional, community, etc - and how it's secured from sabotage, please visit our sites. There we have the clearest and most complete info to date, not to say perfect, but it is because it isn't perfect that i need to limit the time I spend elsewhere and why i seek comments/criticisms about that material.</p>
<p>Do you know of any other Occupy boards where there is a focus on solutions?</p> a beautiful vision Bruce and…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-15:6451976:Comment:91312011-11-15T10:10:09.454ZLindsay Newland Bowkerhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/LindsayNewlandBowker
<p>a beautiful vision Bruce and a welcome energy,</p>
<p>a beautiful vision Bruce and a welcome energy,</p> "People are people! People a…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-11-15:6451976:Comment:94152011-11-15T04:07:09.430ZRobert Riversonghttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RobertRiversong
<p><em>"People are people! People are seen as the completely unique individuals that they are."</em></p>
<p>"People", of course, is a category of living being. "Individual" is a very narrow category of thing - it is a thing seen in isolation of its surroundings or environs. Our minds cannot think nor can we speak but in categories, which have their limited usefulness, but cannot be imagined away except by reducing who we are.</p>
<p>There are more non-human cells in a human body than human…</p>
<p><em>"People are people! People are seen as the completely unique individuals that they are."</em></p>
<p>"People", of course, is a category of living being. "Individual" is a very narrow category of thing - it is a thing seen in isolation of its surroundings or environs. Our minds cannot think nor can we speak but in categories, which have their limited usefulness, but cannot be imagined away except by reducing who we are.</p>
<p>There are more non-human cells in a human body than human cells. So can we even label ourselves by the category "human"?</p>
<p>The expression of our genetic blueprint, our DNA, is determined by coded information - messages - from outside of our skin, from our environs. How is it, then, that we suffer under the illusion that we are either individual or unique. Are snowflakes more alike than different? Do those differences matter in the great scheme of things?</p>
<p>Is any one of us indispensable to the evolution of Gaian life on this little planet? Does Gaia mourn for us when we are swept away in a tsunami or tornado? Does she even miss us?</p>
<p> </p>