Declarations of Possibility for Occupy and the New Economy - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T09:39:15Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/declarations-of-possibility-for-occupy-and-the-new-economy?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A18937&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIt's really clear that we nee…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-01-06:6451976:Comment:204352012-01-06T07:36:16.717ZAnna Harrishttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AnnaHarris
<p>It's really clear that we need to switch, as you say we can't do both. One defeats the other.</p>
<p>The same applies to when one half of society is working within the system, and the other half trying to build the alternative. It is self defeating. This is the message of preparing for the MAY Global Strike now. Using that terminology to call in activists and workers, but encouraging them to put energy into building the alternative rather than the traditional protest to put pressure on…</p>
<p>It's really clear that we need to switch, as you say we can't do both. One defeats the other.</p>
<p>The same applies to when one half of society is working within the system, and the other half trying to build the alternative. It is self defeating. This is the message of preparing for the MAY Global Strike now. Using that terminology to call in activists and workers, but encouraging them to put energy into building the alternative rather than the traditional protest to put pressure on employers or government. As long as we maintain the system by our dependency on it, it will continue to function, exploiting us and damaging the planet.</p> Yeah, David! Like that! (Se…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-01-06:6451976:Comment:204342012-01-06T03:31:37.125ZSusan Livingstonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/SusanLivingston
<p>Yeah, David! Like that! (See The Revolution Is Love, above.)</p>
<p>Yeah, David! Like that! (See The Revolution Is Love, above.)</p> The. Best. Video. I've. Ever.…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-01-06:6451976:Comment:206132012-01-06T01:42:44.961ZMark E. Smithhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarkESmith
<p>The. Best. Video. I've. Ever. Seen. Thank you, David. As we recognize that the dominant system is not meeting our basic needs, we can withdraw our energies from it and put our energy into producing what we need. We can't do both as a "spectrum of activities." Our energies are not infinite. We can put our energy into working within the current system or we can put our energy into creating a better system, but if we try to do both simultaneously, half of our energy will be devoted to defeating…</p>
<p>The. Best. Video. I've. Ever. Seen. Thank you, David. As we recognize that the dominant system is not meeting our basic needs, we can withdraw our energies from it and put our energy into producing what we need. We can't do both as a "spectrum of activities." Our energies are not infinite. We can put our energy into working within the current system or we can put our energy into creating a better system, but if we try to do both simultaneously, half of our energy will be devoted to defeating the other half so we'll just stagnate. There is a new Occupy Garden experiment in permaculture near where I live and it is attracting some very hard-working and creative people. Movements, like armies, travel on their bellies, so in order to grow a movement, we have to grow food. It isn't really as difficult as it may seem, as most of the work is done by nature, and we just have to find spaces for it and defend it. I'm going to play this video over and over until I memorize it--living in a city apartment myself, I feel like I've just found the owner's manual.</p>
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<p></p> OCCUPY THE ECONOMY : Andrew…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-01-05:6451976:Comment:206112012-01-05T22:36:15.420ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/33206215?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/33206215">OCCUPY THE ECONOMY : Andrew Faust - Permaculture - OWS</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/costa">TerraVisus</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/33206215?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/33206215">OCCUPY THE ECONOMY : Andrew Faust - Permaculture - OWS</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/costa">TerraVisus</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p> Here is a trailer to a collec…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-01-02:6451976:Comment:200512012-01-02T22:01:30.599ZSusan Livingstonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/SusanLivingston
<p>Here is a trailer to a collectively-built movie about "gift economy" that's meant to be released later this year:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs" target="_blank">The Revolution is Love</a></p>
<p>Some of the Transition Towns are experimenting with community-based economic systems and finding that they have the potential to render the entire notion of exchange obsolete. Mostly this happens because people are sharing their gifts with their communities rather than…</p>
<p>Here is a trailer to a collectively-built movie about "gift economy" that's meant to be released later this year:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs" target="_blank">The Revolution is Love</a></p>
<p>Some of the Transition Towns are experimenting with community-based economic systems and finding that they have the potential to render the entire notion of exchange obsolete. Mostly this happens because people are sharing their gifts with their communities rather than "working for the man every night and day." It's not about <em>this</em> economic model or <em>that</em> economic model - it's more about decentralizing our economy by acknowledging, supporting, making visible, or replicating local initiatives that are already in place (like clumps of imaginal butterfly cells scattered throughout the muck of what used to be the caterpillar) such as farmers markets, flea markets, community gardens, alternative currencies, buyers cooperatives, and "maker" and service collectives of all sorts. The acceptance of a unified economy was sold to the sheeple based on the convenience of a single currency for "all debts public and private" and the efficiency of debt-driven competition and growth. If we want to reclaim our birthright of community-level interdependence and trust, let's throw off the shackles of our wage slavery and enjoy the GIFT of life instead of "earning a living" and devaluing the gift into a right or entitlement. That's the world I want to live in!</p>
<p></p> "you also seem to be saying t…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-24:6451976:Comment:191542011-12-24T00:24:07.329ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>"<span>you also seem to be saying there may not be time for it to succeed</span>"</p>
<p>If I did, it was somewhat inadvertent. It's getting together first for which I cannot see sufficient time.</p>
<p>Here's a quote from Donella Meadows that addresses rate of change:</p>
<blockquote><p>You could say paradigms are harder to change than anything else about a system, and therefore this item should be lowest on the list*, not second-to-highest. But there's nothing physical or expensive or…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>"<span>you also seem to be saying there may not be time for it to succeed</span>"</p>
<p>If I did, it was somewhat inadvertent. It's getting together first for which I cannot see sufficient time.</p>
<p>Here's a quote from Donella Meadows that addresses rate of change:</p>
<blockquote><p>You could say paradigms are harder to change than anything else about a system, and therefore this item should be lowest on the list*, not second-to-highest. But there's nothing physical or expensive or even slow in the process of paradigm change. In a single individual it can happen in a millisecond. All it takes is a click in the mind, a falling of scales from the eyes, a new way of seeing. Whole societies are another matter -- they resist challenges to their paradigms harder than they resist anything else.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I appreciate our new connection and this exchange, Anna. I like that quote, too, which echoes experiences with some groups in which I participate.</p>
<p>* of <em>places to intervene in a system</em></p> Thank you David, I agree that…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-23:6451976:Comment:190432011-12-23T18:23:33.259ZAnna Harrishttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AnnaHarris
<p>Thank you David, I agree that the <em>collective</em> effort is to acknowledge our interdependence, and restore it in practice. But you also seem to be saying there may not be time for it to succeed. And that may be pointing to the possibility that all our efforts may not be enough to ensure the continuation of human life on this planet.</p>
<p>I would like to think that the <em>period</em> of building the cathedral will be experienced as continuous improvement. If I understand you right…</p>
<p>Thank you David, I agree that the <em>collective</em> effort is to acknowledge our interdependence, and restore it in practice. But you also seem to be saying there may not be time for it to succeed. And that may be pointing to the possibility that all our efforts may not be enough to ensure the continuation of human life on this planet.</p>
<p>I would like to think that the <em>period</em> of building the cathedral will be experienced as continuous improvement. If I understand you right then that is the joy, creativity and excitement <em>I</em> feel in this present situation, in spite of the doom laden prophecies from economists etc. This moment is full of such potential, it feels to me it is ready to burst. After a long tme of feeling isolated it delights in meeting others of like mind</p>
<p>I want to quote here something which I feel is relevant to the way we connect in this discussion, as an aspect of our collective interdependence:</p>
<p><em>'Collective thought is fundamentally opposed to the current system which is managed by the individualist thought. For this, we need time, it is a long-term process. It is usually common that, when considering a decision, two people with contrary ideas will tend to bring themselves into conflict and they will defend their ideas fiercely, with the single objective of convincing, winning or, at the most, reaching middle ground.</em></p>
<p><em>The main objective of collective thought is constructing. This meaning, two people with different ideas combining their energy in order to build something. Then, it is not about my idea or yours. It will be the two ideas together that produce a new outcome that we did not know about in the first place. This is why active listening in which we are not just preparing for our next intervention is so necessary. Collective thought is born once we understand that every opinion, ours and those different to ours, all of them, are needed in order to generate the idea of consensus; an idea which, after being indirectly constructed, will transform us.'</em></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><font color="#7F7F7F"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 11pt;" size="2"><b><font face="Calibri"><a href="http://www.peoplesassemblies.org/2011/06/the-dynamisation-of-popular-assemblies-sol-text/" target="_blank">http://www.peoplesassemblies.org/2011/06/the-dynamisation-of-popular-assemblies-sol-text/</a></font></b></font></font></font></font></p> "May be as you say it is just…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-23:6451976:Comment:188582011-12-23T15:39:54.263ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>"<span>May be as you say it is just a question of each one working on themselves and this will produce enough momentum.</span>"</p>
<p>Thanks for your response and clarification, Anna. Now I will clarify, because what you took from what I wrote isn't exactly what I meant.</p>
<p>I questioned "<span> it </span><em>has</em><span> to happen, as a collective effort</span>" because I do not see everyone getting together for a focused effort, much less succeeding, soon enough. I do see…</p>
<p>"<span>May be as you say it is just a question of each one working on themselves and this will produce enough momentum.</span>"</p>
<p>Thanks for your response and clarification, Anna. Now I will clarify, because what you took from what I wrote isn't exactly what I meant.</p>
<p>I questioned "<span> it </span><em>has</em><span> to happen, as a collective effort</span>" because I do not see everyone getting together for a focused effort, much less succeeding, soon enough. I do see something(s) common to human beings, upon which a new goodness might be built over time, like a cathedral.</p>
<p>Turning this whole machine around consists in acknowledging that each one of us needs more working relationships in order to extricate ourselves from the machine on which we are dependent. This is where <em>collective</em> is in the picture; we are interdependent, presently in a manner that has exiled human scale.</p>
<p>Each one working on themselves will not produce enough momentum -- unless the work is informed by relations, informs relations and attracts new participants to that cycling. I believe the attractions that will build momentum are personal, thus unique, aggregates of health, poise, creativity and joy.</p>
<p>I expect those who lack them to intone "I'll have what she's having" and begin to participate. The <em>period</em> of building the cathedral will be experienced as continuous improvement, so completion won't be rushed.</p> Not quite sure what you mean…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-23:6451976:Comment:191282011-12-23T03:42:16.349ZAnna Harrishttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AnnaHarris
<p>Not quite sure what you mean David. Is it the 'collective effort' you question? then probably I would agree with you. Actually what i wrote originally did not have that phrase tagged on. The emphasis was just on the necessity of turning the machine around.. May be as you say it is just a question of each one working on themselves and this will produce enough momentum. According to Barbara Marx hubbard what is required is to respond to what is 'already emergent', so it is not that we…</p>
<p>Not quite sure what you mean David. Is it the 'collective effort' you question? then probably I would agree with you. Actually what i wrote originally did not have that phrase tagged on. The emphasis was just on the necessity of turning the machine around.. May be as you say it is just a question of each one working on themselves and this will produce enough momentum. According to Barbara Marx hubbard what is required is to respond to what is 'already emergent', so it is not that we <em>create</em> this change by our efforts, but we notice and respond to what is already changing.</p> "But undertaking the work tha…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-22:6451976:Comment:189372011-12-22T14:45:47.063ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>"<span>But undertaking the work that I have to do to be open to the transformation that is being called for, that work is mine, and it may be a prerequisite for the cooperation and implementation that is required. It is no easy task we face to turn this whole machine around, and it </span><em>has</em><span> to happen, as a collective effort.</span>"</p>
<p>Please explain why it cannot possibly happen as an iterative, cumulative effort. If you can, it will be very, very helpful.</p>
<p>"<span>But undertaking the work that I have to do to be open to the transformation that is being called for, that work is mine, and it may be a prerequisite for the cooperation and implementation that is required. It is no easy task we face to turn this whole machine around, and it </span><em>has</em><span> to happen, as a collective effort.</span>"</p>
<p>Please explain why it cannot possibly happen as an iterative, cumulative effort. If you can, it will be very, very helpful.</p>