Economies as Forums for All Voices - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T13:17:46Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/economies-as-forums-for-all-voices?groupUrl=occupy-2-0-new-economic-models&commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A17042&groupId=6451976%3AGroup%3A14318&feed=yes&xn_auth=noPosted elsewhere in another c…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-22:6451976:Comment:190272011-12-22T12:31:44.840ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>Posted elsewhere in another context, but fitting here, as well:</p>
<p><span>So much remains to be seen; I cannot predict what sort of factors fading/distorted remains and memories of the industrial and fossil-fueled era will be. I'm for the </span><em>quality</em><span> of wholeness, not a model </span><em>per se</em><span>.</span></p>
<p><span>Approaching wholeness of self-directed persons and of <em>working</em> places that they share is the adventurous process I advocate. Steadily more…</span></p>
<p>Posted elsewhere in another context, but fitting here, as well:</p>
<p><span>So much remains to be seen; I cannot predict what sort of factors fading/distorted remains and memories of the industrial and fossil-fueled era will be. I'm for the </span><em>quality</em><span> of wholeness, not a model </span><em>per se</em><span>.</span></p>
<p><span>Approaching wholeness of self-directed persons and of <em>working</em> places that they share is the adventurous process I advocate. Steadily more working relationships. In the beginning, it does not require the election of any one or type, or the passage of any law or amendment. It is a choice for any and all.</span></p> Okay. Focusing on your intro…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-12:6451976:Comment:167972011-12-12T16:37:44.340ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
Okay. Focusing on your intro and the idea of pragmatism, would you please describe the specific, practical structure of your model and how it is accomplished.
Okay. Focusing on your intro and the idea of pragmatism, would you please describe the specific, practical structure of your model and how it is accomplished. Right, but it is another one.…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-12:6451976:Comment:171892011-12-12T16:27:36.433ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>Right, but it is another one. This is not the thread for discussion of all pragmatic, local strategies. At least, I'm wishing it is not that.</p>
<p>I hoped for exploration of a broad sense of voice.</p>
<p>Right, but it is another one. This is not the thread for discussion of all pragmatic, local strategies. At least, I'm wishing it is not that.</p>
<p>I hoped for exploration of a broad sense of voice.</p> David, I think of this as a p…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-12:6451976:Comment:167962011-12-12T16:23:33.739ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>David, I think of this as a pragmatic, local strategy.</p>
<p>David, I think of this as a pragmatic, local strategy.</p> I wish you had used this stat…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-12:6451976:Comment:172282011-12-12T15:47:59.814ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>I wish you had used this statement to start a new discussion or to broaden the one you started, Kevin. It is a proper response to Dave's leading comment and not a response to my</p>
<blockquote><p><span class="font-size-2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1">These forums will be necessarily (naturally) dynamic manifestations of who/what is present and contributing. In time, appropriate traditions of being-in-place will return to…</font></font></font></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I wish you had used this statement to start a new discussion or to broaden the one you started, Kevin. It is a proper response to Dave's leading comment and not a response to my</p>
<blockquote><p><span class="font-size-2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1">These forums will be necessarily (naturally) dynamic manifestations of who/what is present and contributing. In time, appropriate traditions of being-in-place will return to serve.</font></font></font></span></p>
<p><span><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Voice in the limited sense simply cannot go as far.</font></span></p>
</blockquote> I offer as a local pragmatic…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-10:6451976:Comment:171422011-12-10T16:37:15.799ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>I offer as a local pragmatic idea Reconomy at <a href="http://reconomy.net" target="_blank">http://reconomy.net</a>, which is a model that establishes a money-energy value loop to develop community-controlled local energy resources. I'm finding the utility of this approach is quickly grasped in developing regions, but not so much in developed communities. The difference seems to be that "developed communities" are living easy by exploiting resources from less developed communities and so…</p>
<p>I offer as a local pragmatic idea Reconomy at <a href="http://reconomy.net" target="_blank">http://reconomy.net</a>, which is a model that establishes a money-energy value loop to develop community-controlled local energy resources. I'm finding the utility of this approach is quickly grasped in developing regions, but not so much in developed communities. The difference seems to be that "developed communities" are living easy by exploiting resources from less developed communities and so have little general interest in changing that gravy train to develop their own.</p>
<p>This experience has led me to focus on recruiting the help of those whom get it rather than on changing minds. Or, in other words, I don't find much benefit in talking about the reasoning behind this in western developed communities. People are moved by self-interest, enlightened or otherwise, and enlightened self-interest is lacking where self-interest is lavishly fed; so spending my energy on raising the consciousness of the affluent isn't profitable, not to say that reaching out to those whom are already tuned in is always a waste of time.</p> Yes, that's true. Cheap ener…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-09:6451976:Comment:171322011-12-09T20:35:31.396ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>Yes, that's true. Cheap energy is what is allowing us to eat the world alive, and while community energy empowerment might change that, there is also the law of unintended consequences.</p>
<p>Yes, that's true. Cheap energy is what is allowing us to eat the world alive, and while community energy empowerment might change that, there is also the law of unintended consequences.</p> "I think I have a pretty good…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-09:6451976:Comment:167382011-12-09T20:18:47.129ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>"I think I have a pretty good view of the task. In fact, it is the cheapest way to go."</p>
<p>Sounds like you do and yes it is. Sometimes, even the cheapest way costs way too much.</p>
<p>Time will tell, I guess.</p>
<p>"I think I have a pretty good view of the task. In fact, it is the cheapest way to go."</p>
<p>Sounds like you do and yes it is. Sometimes, even the cheapest way costs way too much.</p>
<p>Time will tell, I guess.</p> David, I've imagined this wit…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-09:6451976:Comment:170422011-12-09T17:20:46.571ZKevin Parcellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KevinParcell
<p>David, I've imagined this with collaborators around the world. As a professional energy manager, and having focused on this many years, I think I have a pretty good view of the task. In fact, it is the cheapest way to go, and with an accompanying strategy for community empowerment imo it can support the needs of the human population while preserving habitat and species indefinitely. I don't believe that retreating to the 19th Century can accomplish that, although one bicycle per person - a…</p>
<p>David, I've imagined this with collaborators around the world. As a professional energy manager, and having focused on this many years, I think I have a pretty good view of the task. In fact, it is the cheapest way to go, and with an accompanying strategy for community empowerment imo it can support the needs of the human population while preserving habitat and species indefinitely. I don't believe that retreating to the 19th Century can accomplish that, although one bicycle per person - a 19th Century technology - might take us some ways further down the sustainably path. Please get back to me if you get to that site, and then I would be pleased to discuss it in detail.</p> I'll try to get to that site…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2011-12-09:6451976:Comment:169552011-12-09T14:37:30.077ZDavid Eggletonhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DavidEggleton
<p>I'll try to get to that site sometime. Please try to imagine the amount and sources of investment required to bring about net-zero communities everywhere. I believe the former is way out of reach and the latter too hard to find. That doesn't mean some nice demonstrations are impossible, but why demonstrate a <em>dead end</em>?</p>
<p>Traditional solar communities are the default condition of human beings. With the arrival of fossil fuels, humanity lost its mooring and then its bearings.…</p>
<p>I'll try to get to that site sometime. Please try to imagine the amount and sources of investment required to bring about net-zero communities everywhere. I believe the former is way out of reach and the latter too hard to find. That doesn't mean some nice demonstrations are impossible, but why demonstrate a <em>dead end</em>?</p>
<p>Traditional solar communities are the default condition of human beings. With the arrival of fossil fuels, humanity lost its mooring and then its bearings. This is a situation where simply retrieving is superior to innovating our way down, around and back.</p>