Visioning Blanket - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T21:43:35Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/feminist-visioning-blanket?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A29032&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI am a dumb engineer and do n…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-30:6451976:Comment:290942012-07-30T19:40:19.829ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>I am a dumb engineer and do not fit the definition of the philosopher: I do not think there is any <i>sense</i> in seeking the absolute truth explaining the Universe.</p>
<p>In spite of that I think we know enough (and have technical ability) to switch to new, relational, non-objective, and collective way of thinking.</p>
<p>Your question about the <i>object</i> is the best example of the challenge. The word has the natural meaning all along the evolution of language and civilization; we…</p>
<p>I am a dumb engineer and do not fit the definition of the philosopher: I do not think there is any <i>sense</i> in seeking the absolute truth explaining the Universe.</p>
<p>In spite of that I think we know enough (and have technical ability) to switch to new, relational, non-objective, and collective way of thinking.</p>
<p>Your question about the <i>object</i> is the best example of the challenge. The word has the natural meaning all along the evolution of language and civilization; we can’t touch it unless we want to infringe our communication ability and skills.</p>
<p>In Latin origin it meant “thrown against”.</p>
<p>I have been thrown, my place in time and space is my point. Whatever I think or do I am the temporary object/node of the universal evolution. I try to track down and grasp the <i>sense</i> of my relationship with my surroundings/environment; I am therefore becoming the subject of the exploration.</p>
<p>The very fact that I, you and all humans can be doing it is a proof that such (common) <i>sense</i> must exist. I feel responsible to link both <i>senses</i> – my (subjective) and common (objective).</p>
<p>It was a pleasure to read your post anyhow, thank you.</p> Here we touch the issue of fu…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-29:6451976:Comment:291412012-07-29T19:05:13.903ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Here we touch the issue of fuzzy logic. Can sense be the subject of any action? Are we then the objects?</p>
<p>Here we touch the issue of fuzzy logic. Can sense be the subject of any action? Are we then the objects?</p> I have sent it again - to you…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-29:6451976:Comment:290772012-07-29T16:23:00.945ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>I have sent it again - to your personal page message box. The message (not chat post) was my answer to you and Jittendra and I thought OC Stewards/admin page message box is accessible to both of you.</p>
<p>I have sent it again - to your personal page message box. The message (not chat post) was my answer to you and Jittendra and I thought OC Stewards/admin page message box is accessible to both of you.</p> Or perhaps "old sense" is mer…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-29:6451976:Comment:291382012-07-29T14:43:50.030ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Or perhaps "old sense" is merging with "new sense/science" to create <a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/the-importance-of-new-stories" target="_blank">New Stories</a>?!</p>
<p>Or perhaps "old sense" is merging with "new sense/science" to create <a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/the-importance-of-new-stories" target="_blank">New Stories</a>?!</p> Pawel:
I can't figure out how…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-29:6451976:Comment:293212012-07-29T13:26:34.690ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Pawel:</p>
<p>I can't figure out how to display old chat text, so I am not able to read the June 13th post! Can you copy it here, and also perhaps help me learn how to retrieve such things please?</p>
<p>Pawel:</p>
<p>I can't figure out how to display old chat text, so I am not able to read the June 13th post! Can you copy it here, and also perhaps help me learn how to retrieve such things please?</p> Isn't it the global problem?…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-29:6451976:Comment:291372012-07-29T07:05:23.881ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Isn't it the global problem? Old sense has vanished and there is no new and common sense to replace it. To solve the problem WE have to face it!</p>
<p>Isn't it the global problem? Old sense has vanished and there is no new and common sense to replace it. To solve the problem WE have to face it!</p> Ben, on June 13 I have sent a…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-28:6451976:Comment:292132012-07-28T17:14:43.902ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Ben, on June 13 I have sent a message addressed to <em>Occupy Cafe Stewards</em> box using OC messaging facility. I thought the content doesn't fit the attitude of the forum.</p>
<p>It was my view on the potential of asynchronous communication. Did you ever read it?</p>
<p>Today, reading it again, I myself find it very difficult to understand, especially when the context of <em>"Occupy new mind"</em> thread is forgotten. Anyhow I hope it is clear enough to inspire a feedback. Could it be…</p>
<p>Ben, on June 13 I have sent a message addressed to <em>Occupy Cafe Stewards</em> box using OC messaging facility. I thought the content doesn't fit the attitude of the forum.</p>
<p>It was my view on the potential of asynchronous communication. Did you ever read it?</p>
<p>Today, reading it again, I myself find it very difficult to understand, especially when the context of <em>"Occupy new mind"</em> thread is forgotten. Anyhow I hope it is clear enough to inspire a feedback. Could it be the answer to your first question?</p>
<p>As for the second you can decide after reading the message. I am open to any promising connection and dialogue.</p>
<p></p> Currently we can use the know…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-28:6451976:Comment:290702012-07-28T13:23:36.049ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<blockquote><p>Currently we can use the knowledge to understand the delusion; we can use the real time interconnectedness to create complementary code expressing the implicit. The limitation would be released. 100% is certainly not possible immediately, but ignition of the common process can be enough to start working together... [My] intuition tells me this is the role of "asynch"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am intrigued by these words, but do not fully understand them. Can you please say a bit…</p>
<blockquote><p>Currently we can use the knowledge to understand the delusion; we can use the real time interconnectedness to create complementary code expressing the implicit. The limitation would be released. 100% is certainly not possible immediately, but ignition of the common process can be enough to start working together... [My] intuition tells me this is the role of "asynch"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am intrigued by these words, but do not fully understand them. Can you please say a bit more about this, Pawel, or refer us to some other posts where you may have done so already?</p>
<p>Also, I am reminded of a man I met recently who is working on a "means of expression" that can do for "wealth creation" what language has done for meaning (!). Deep stuff from a possible kindred soul! Would you like me to connect the two of you?</p> Dyck, do you remember the dep…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-28:6451976:Comment:293192012-07-28T13:04:17.425ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Dyck, do you remember the departure point of our communication? The line I pulled out from your context two weeks ago?</p>
<p>Our delusional thinking makes us assume everything can be made explicit. Therefore we/species have built the communication code (set of words and rules to put them together) on this assumption.</p>
<p>Currently we can use the knowledge to understand the delusion; we can use the real time interconnectedness to create complementary code expressing the implicit. The…</p>
<p>Dyck, do you remember the departure point of our communication? The line I pulled out from your context two weeks ago?</p>
<p>Our delusional thinking makes us assume everything can be made explicit. Therefore we/species have built the communication code (set of words and rules to put them together) on this assumption.</p>
<p>Currently we can use the knowledge to understand the delusion; we can use the real time interconnectedness to create complementary code expressing the implicit. The limitation would be released. 100% is certainly not possible immediately, but ignition of the common process can be enough to start working together.</p>
<p>Ben: my intuition tells me this is the role of "asynch"</p> Pawel,
The limitation I speak…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-07-25:6451976:Comment:289892012-07-25T02:38:56.327ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Pawel,</p>
<p>The limitation I speak of is inherent to our limited use of our capabilities to express and to receive. For example, I know that I cannot express myself in words alone... maybe not even 20%. So, as a listener if you think you understand me 80-100% by listening or reading only, you must be mistaken. Quite a large disparity, no? But perhaps you also pick up innuendo, intonation & tenses, implication... subtleties.</p>
<p>I would say to understand "...to express myself." …</p>
<p>Pawel,</p>
<p>The limitation I speak of is inherent to our limited use of our capabilities to express and to receive. For example, I know that I cannot express myself in words alone... maybe not even 20%. So, as a listener if you think you understand me 80-100% by listening or reading only, you must be mistaken. Quite a large disparity, no? But perhaps you also pick up innuendo, intonation & tenses, implication... subtleties.</p>
<p>I would say to understand "...to express myself." leave the dictionary and the mental world and go to intention. Intuit what is my intention? What is your intention in this dialogue? Put the two together. Is it possible to connect beyond the explicit?</p>
<p>To add to my somewhat dry words here I add... I say all this with affection, not challenge. Can you sense it, my friend?</p>