Indigenous Wisdom: Healing the Rift (10/8 Vital Conversation) - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T11:47:49Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/indigenous-wisdom-healing-the-rift-10-8-vital-conversation?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A33190&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi again friends...
I have ju…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-22:6451976:Comment:336662012-10-22T19:02:39.473ZAerin Dunfordhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AerinDunford
<p>Hi again friends...</p>
<p>I have just written a blog post about a project that I am initating around the question of the role of indigenous wisdom in these changing times and emerging world. Check out the post if you are interested or would like to learn more...…</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hi again friends...</p>
<p>I have just written a blog post about a project that I am initating around the question of the role of indigenous wisdom in these changing times and emerging world. Check out the post if you are interested or would like to learn more...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/the-role-of-indigenous-wisdom-in-an-emerging-world?xg_source=activity" target="_blank">http://www.occupycafe.org/profiles/blogs/the-role-of-indigenous-wisdom-in-an-emerging-world?xg_source=activity</a></p>
<p>En solidaridad,</p>
<p>Aerin</p> Aerin,
It's been days since y…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-22:6451976:Comment:334662012-10-22T01:14:48.020ZGary Horvitzhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/GaryHorvitz
<p>Aerin,</p>
<p>It's been days since you posted this and a response is overdue. Thanks first for your generous personal comments. They are gratefully received. I have high regard for your creative intelligence, leadership, commitment and the way you show up with a warrior's heart.</p>
<p>Your comments remind me of the soul-searching and wrenching journey that Germany has been on for 65 years. To do that kind of shadow work as a nation surely has not been easy or fun. To imagine this country…</p>
<p>Aerin,</p>
<p>It's been days since you posted this and a response is overdue. Thanks first for your generous personal comments. They are gratefully received. I have high regard for your creative intelligence, leadership, commitment and the way you show up with a warrior's heart.</p>
<p>Your comments remind me of the soul-searching and wrenching journey that Germany has been on for 65 years. To do that kind of shadow work as a nation surely has not been easy or fun. To imagine this country doing anything of that magnitude is frankly a foreign concept. Not that it couldn't. Just can't imagine what kind of episode could trigger such a thing....except maybe environmental/financial collapse. And even then, many would be looking every place else for answers except in their own hearts.</p>
<p>So the task of doing that shadow work becomes, as you suggest, our <em>ad hoc</em> responsibility, in whatever ways we can and to the most beneficial effect. It takes generations. And we don't have a moment to lose.</p>
<p>Blessings and love,</p>
<p>Gary</p> Hi Gary, everyone...
I've had…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-18:6451976:Comment:333742012-10-18T01:54:32.379ZAerin Dunfordhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AerinDunford
<p>Hi Gary, everyone...</p>
<p>I've had this conversation open in a tab for the past week... pondering how I might like to respond. I also participated in Jitandra's Occupy Heart call last Thursday with Brother Phil, which I found very, very powerful. <br></br> <br></br> Mostly, I would say we're on the same page. As I mentioned above, I don't think our institutions are set up to forgive. I even question those momentous historical events when there has been "reconciliation" (I'm thinking mostly of…</p>
<p>Hi Gary, everyone...</p>
<p>I've had this conversation open in a tab for the past week... pondering how I might like to respond. I also participated in Jitandra's Occupy Heart call last Thursday with Brother Phil, which I found very, very powerful. <br/> <br/> Mostly, I would say we're on the same page. As I mentioned above, I don't think our institutions are set up to forgive. I even question those momentous historical events when there has been "reconciliation" (I'm thinking mostly of South Africa which in my opinion continues to be in a BIG MESS despite their triumphs over apartheid). So I am definitely on board with you around the fact that there is much for the U.S. to amend for. But I, like you, am pretty sure that government is not going to be passing out reparations any day soon. What I'm not sure about is whether or not without reparations our individual actions of forgiveness and healing are "doomed to be inadequate."</p>
<p>I guess the challenge for me around this assertion is that we are basically saying there is no way forward. But I do not believe that. I hold a strong conviction that by building communities that <strong>do not</strong> hold near and dear these traits of entitlement, arrogance, lack of awareness, etc.; and which espouse different values, that it is possible there will be transformation.</p>
<p>Do I think it will come about as a result only of locally based, small-scale efforts? Absolutely not. Nor will it be the result of only human action. And a big part of it will come about because these institutions that have become so burdensome, so inflexible, such massive, lumbering machines will fail. They will never forgive, nor even admit, what it is that they are truly up to. But it is becoming more and more clear to many of us what it is that drives them, what mindsets serve them and how inconceivable it is that they will continue to exist for too much longer (relatively speaking perhaps...)</p>
<p>So, those are my thoughts this evening. I am also so grateful to be your friend. And you know what? When I first met you via email, I was quite intimidated by you. But once I let go of some false first impressions I was so amazed by your beingness, questions and journey. I am glad that we humans have the capacity to forgive, change, adapt and learn together.</p>
<p>Love,<br/> Aerin</p>
Ben, since I was not presen…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-11:6451976:Comment:334032012-10-11T16:47:50.995ZGary Horvitzhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/GaryHorvitz
<p> </p>
<p>Ben, since I was not present for the Monday call, this view may have been expressed already, but I am simply saying that being more deliberate and committed to bringing ceremony and ritual into as many forms and mixtures of social gatherings as possible is what sustains and deepens and permeates the social context with an attitude of reverence and connection to the greater biosphere.</p>
<p>I am not talking about empty gesture or generic spontaneous offerings. I am imagining the…</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ben, since I was not present for the Monday call, this view may have been expressed already, but I am simply saying that being more deliberate and committed to bringing ceremony and ritual into as many forms and mixtures of social gatherings as possible is what sustains and deepens and permeates the social context with an attitude of reverence and connection to the greater biosphere.</p>
<p>I am not talking about empty gesture or generic spontaneous offerings. I am imagining the infusion of authentic ceremony, or at least hybrids of ritual tested by time or, failing that, offerings that are based on at least some authentic precursors that invoke the sacred dimension. It's certainly no mean feat to come into that capacity for authoritative delivery of such an invocation. But people like <a href="http://mosaicvoices.org/">Michael Meade</a> or <a href="http://www.angelesarrien.com/">Angeles Arrien</a> come to mind, not to mention any of the indigenous leaders here.</p>
<p>I am also referring to making a clear distinction between spirit and soul. I regard such ceremonies to be grounding in the sense of taking us into our bodies, a momentary descent into and acknowledgment of the soulful dimension, because that is the soil of our biological nature. We have to get down into the soil of ourselves, the indigenous soil/soul of our presence in the web of life if we are to reconnect with it in any meaningful way.</p>
<p>This is spiritual grounding that has little to do with spirit in the sense that we ascend to spirit--we descend into soul. The muddying of this distinction is everywhere in our culture, with millions taking refuge in the spiritual dimension, with so much magical thinking attending to it all, the evangelicals waiting for some external entity to come and save them. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging spirit as a source, but what I think we get from exploration of the soul is a descent into the collective reality as opposed to merely nurturing an individial relationship with a <em>disembodied</em> entity. </p>
<p>This healing process has nothing to do with shamanism or magic. It is not about <em>ascending</em> to anything. It is more about <em>inscendance,</em> a term <a href="http://www.animas.org/newbook/aboutBill.htm">Bill Plotkin</a> uses. It is embodiment in the same sense in which Jitendra means it, coming <em>into</em> our body more fully, the body of life, the body of time, the embodied and hence connected self in which our indigenous memory is alive and present.</p> Thank you, Gary, I love, and…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-11:6451976:Comment:331902012-10-11T13:35:50.006ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Thank you, Gary, I love, and share your passion for such "truth and reconciliation," as well as your concern that it is appears to be a difficult row to hoe right now. I'd love to hear more, though, about that last part: "p<span>erhaps it begins with deliberate and authentic healing gestures in every possible venue, starting with our own hearts." What do you see as happening and being possible now in this regard?</span></p>
<p>Thank you, Gary, I love, and share your passion for such "truth and reconciliation," as well as your concern that it is appears to be a difficult row to hoe right now. I'd love to hear more, though, about that last part: "p<span>erhaps it begins with deliberate and authentic healing gestures in every possible venue, starting with our own hearts." What do you see as happening and being possible now in this regard?</span></p> Aerin, as you well know the m…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-11:6451976:Comment:331882012-10-11T03:00:12.610ZGary Horvitzhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/GaryHorvitz
<p>Aerin, as you well know the majority who remain in the business-as-usual mindset are the ones who continue to buy into the primary value of the corporate agenda--perpetual economic growth. We are fed the same BS from both democrats and republicans. Obama buys into it just as much as Romney. The only way they really differ is on the method to attain that growth.</p>
<p>Maybe these comments are getting a little off-topic, but when I say America will never make amends, I refer to the…</p>
<p>Aerin, as you well know the majority who remain in the business-as-usual mindset are the ones who continue to buy into the primary value of the corporate agenda--perpetual economic growth. We are fed the same BS from both democrats and republicans. Obama buys into it just as much as Romney. The only way they really differ is on the method to attain that growth.</p>
<p>Maybe these comments are getting a little off-topic, but when I say America will never make amends, I refer to the institution of government. And there is much to amend. A reparations for slavery movement was quickly quashed; then of course there is the incalculable damage done to Native Americans, the hundreds of thousands of innocent casualties in Iraq that will never be acknowledged, carpet-bombing and the legacy of agent-orange in Vietnam, the depleted uranium all over Iraq from the Gulf War, the collateral damage of the drone war in Pakistan (who are regarded as combatants if they are males of military age), the citizens used as atomic guinea pigs in the 50's, the Japanese incarcerated during WWII, the tolerance of toxic food, water and air. The list goes on and on and on.</p>
<p>The government cannot ever make true amends for all that without a profound and sustained and authentic change in policies that we must demand. Meanwhile, citizens can indeed make gestures. And the more the better. But without reparations, those gestures are limited and doomed to be inadequate.</p>
<p>We as a nation would have to shed our attitude of entitlement, arrogance, develop a true awareness of how other people live around the world, join the community of nations as an equal, strip away the illusions (as <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Illusion-Literacy-Triumph-Spectacle/dp/1568584377" target="_blank">Chris Hedges</a> illustrates so powerfully) of happiness, the illusion of literacy, the illusions of security, the twisted distortions of love and charade of democracy that captivate this nation. A tall order, indeed. Perhaps it begins with deliberate and authentic healing gestures in every possible venue, starting with our own hearts.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I believe in you and am so grateful for knowing you.</p>
<p></p> Hi Gary!
Great to hear from y…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-10:6451976:Comment:330952012-10-10T19:38:38.060ZAerin Dunfordhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/AerinDunford
<p>Hi Gary!</p>
<p>Great to hear from you (as always). I was checking out your earlier posts on this page and sharing with some friends. I don't know much about the 12-step program but I do agree with your statement that we have not yet "hit bottom" ... or at least, we aren't aware if we have. I was just recently chatting with Katie Teague about this issue. The U.S. went through such an intense economic crises in 2008 and yet the majority of people continue on with their "business as usual"…</p>
<p>Hi Gary!</p>
<p>Great to hear from you (as always). I was checking out your earlier posts on this page and sharing with some friends. I don't know much about the 12-step program but I do agree with your statement that we have not yet "hit bottom" ... or at least, we aren't aware if we have. I was just recently chatting with Katie Teague about this issue. The U.S. went through such an intense economic crises in 2008 and yet the majority of people continue on with their "business as usual" mindsets.</p>
<p>I am also intrigued by your statement that "American will never make amends." I wonder what that means... is that the institutions? This I believe... I don't think that U.S. (and for that matter, most international institutions) are set up to forgive. But what about the U.S. American people ourselves? Can we make amends, are we not the country? I really hear you around this "sustained bender between a determined action to heal and our broken hearts." That resonates. But it seems that there is willingness to be in this paradox, in the swinging pendulum between guilt/dependency and determined action to heal. I guess for me that's why the question of how we move forward and deepen this conversation is so important to me. Complex, difficult, loaded... but essential.</p> I'm sad to have missed the co…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-10:6451976:Comment:333242012-10-10T02:16:56.269ZMichelle Hollidayhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MichelleHolliday
<p>I'm sad to have missed the conversation yesterday - it was Thanksgiving here in Canada and my family was calling to me at the same time. We were out in the Quebec forest, which was red and gold with Fall colors. <br/><br/>As I've been reading through the comments here, I'm frustrated not to have a "like" button for each! So much wisdom and generosity. I'm grateful for this community. </p>
<p>I'm sad to have missed the conversation yesterday - it was Thanksgiving here in Canada and my family was calling to me at the same time. We were out in the Quebec forest, which was red and gold with Fall colors. <br/><br/>As I've been reading through the comments here, I'm frustrated not to have a "like" button for each! So much wisdom and generosity. I'm grateful for this community. </p> Thanks, Jeff. This brightene…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-09:6451976:Comment:330932012-10-09T19:36:33.670ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Thanks, Jeff. This brightened up my day! A lovely coda to yesterday's conversation.</p>
<p>Thanks, Jeff. This brightened up my day! A lovely coda to yesterday's conversation.</p> Ben, I wonder how personally…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-10-09:6451976:Comment:330912012-10-09T17:26:47.184ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Ben, I wonder how personally 'hitting bottom' compares to a group or society 'hitting bottom'.</p>
<p>I think of the mass protest 9/11 on Wall Street as something precluded by a society 'hitting bottom'. And it seems it isn't the final bottom we'll see. I'll say that because I'm still suffering (in my own ways) and I perceive many others are suffering in their ways... and systemically the sources of that suffering seem to be worsening... even if the cumulative eye is off the…</p>
<p>Ben, I wonder how personally 'hitting bottom' compares to a group or society 'hitting bottom'.</p>
<p>I think of the mass protest 9/11 on Wall Street as something precluded by a society 'hitting bottom'. And it seems it isn't the final bottom we'll see. I'll say that because I'm still suffering (in my own ways) and I perceive many others are suffering in their ways... and systemically the sources of that suffering seem to be worsening... even if the cumulative eye is off the ball.</p>
<p>I'm VERY curious, excited, afraid, exhilarated... and though I 'know' there will be tremendous suffering and atrocity... I'm full of anticipation that compassion becomes driver. Wondering what that will look and feel like.</p>