Opinio - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T12:15:44Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/opinio?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A36545&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJerry, In your ID photo you s…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2013-01-05:6451976:Comment:366352013-01-05T23:42:27.957ZRichard Waddellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RichardWaddell
<p>Jerry, In your ID photo you seem to be standing behind a pulpit. I notice you don’t claim that sin causes us to kill. You haven’t chosen to discuss sin, and I appreciate that. I left the S. Baptist about 50 years ago and gave up sin. I didn’t give up sinning; I just called it something else.</p>
<p>But, with your religious background, I thought you might be interested in connections between killing and Lucifer. “The Lucifer Principle” by Howard Bloom is a fascinating look at sin and…</p>
<p>Jerry, In your ID photo you seem to be standing behind a pulpit. I notice you don’t claim that sin causes us to kill. You haven’t chosen to discuss sin, and I appreciate that. I left the S. Baptist about 50 years ago and gave up sin. I didn’t give up sinning; I just called it something else.</p>
<p>But, with your religious background, I thought you might be interested in connections between killing and Lucifer. “The Lucifer Principle” by Howard Bloom is a fascinating look at sin and sinning. (Not from the S. Baptist perspective.) From p. 2:</p>
<p>“At its heart, the Lucifer Principle looks something like this: The nature scientists uncover has crafted our viler impulses into us: in fact these impulses are a part of the process she uses to create. Lucifer is the dark side of cosmic fecundity, the cutting blade of the sculptor’s knife. Nature does not abhor evil; she embraces it. She uses it to build. With it, she moves the human world to greater heights of organization, intricacy, and power.</p>
<p>Death, destruction, and fury do not disturb the Mother of our world; they are merely parts of her plan.</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>To dismantle the curse that Mother Nature has build into us, we need a new way of looking at man, a new way of reshaping our destiny.”</p> Jerry,
Jerry, you started th…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2013-01-05:6451976:Comment:368152013-01-05T03:01:40.621ZRichard Waddellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RichardWaddell
<p style="font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: -0.49in;"><font size="4">Jerry, </font></p>
<p>Jerry, you started this conversation with numerous complaints about the federal government. When I challenge you to tell us how our government contributed to the shootings, you write:</p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong>I am very happy to reply to the place Government played, it is in providing schools that are not safe for kids in this present day.”</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>If…</strong></p>
<p style="font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: -0.49in;"><font size="4">Jerry, </font></p>
<p>Jerry, you started this conversation with numerous complaints about the federal government. When I challenge you to tell us how our government contributed to the shootings, you write:</p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong>I am very happy to reply to the place Government played, it is in providing schools that are not safe for kids in this present day.”</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>If the federal government had tried to set standards for local schools, the government haters would have complained about “bureaucratic regulations,” and would have claimed the fed's were taking control away from local communities.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Regarding your questions:</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Does warfare promote killing.”</i></strong> <strong>Absolutely</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Does arming our police to fight drugs with auto weapons promote killing.</i></strong><strong>” I don't know how their choice of weapons would make any difference.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Does television promote killing.</i></strong><strong>” Seeing acts of violence on TV could possibly make it easier for someone to commit such an act. The larger question for me is, why are young men so much attracted to violent programs? What is the attraction? What reward do they get from watching these programs? Is it possible these programs provide a way to vicariously direct general anger at a fictional target? When the fictional targets no longer provide the relief sought, do they graduate to actual targets for directing their anger? Where does the anger come from? If the anger comes from offenses committed against them, why don't religious leaders simply teach them to “turn the other cheek?” Are they using drugs to mask the anger? Could drug use be shielding us from other school shootings? Could a rage against the world be a byproduct of the separations: material v spiritual, individual v community, and culture v nature. (See Charles Eisenstein)</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Do movies promote killing</i></strong><strong>.” See question about television.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Do games promote killing</i></strong><strong>.” See question about television.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>“</strong><strong><i>Does Santa promote killing with the toys and games He delivers.</i></strong><strong>” My parents thought so. All my friends during WWII had toy M1's to play soldier with, but I never had one. I simply used a wooden stick substitute, which shows that culture is likely to win out in the long run.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><i>Who does promote killing?</i></strong> <strong>Gun manufacturers? The NRA? I once read that many movies like Rambo were financed by right wingers (people who hate government) who wanted to counter the anti-war movement. Which reminds me, where have all the young men gone who once wore flowers in their hair? They never committed school shootings.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br/> </p> Jerry, I’d be curious to see…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2013-01-04:6451976:Comment:365452013-01-04T21:55:26.176ZRichard Waddellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RichardWaddell
<p><font size="4"><b><span>Jerry,</span> I’d be curious to see one way in which the government caused the shooting.</b></font></p>
<p><span>“<font size="4"><b>Wake up and look around, what do you see?”</b></font></span></p>
<p><span>“<font size="4"><b>Good government or bad?” </b></font></span></p>
<p></p>
<p><font size="4"><b><span>Much of both. </span></b></font></p>
<p><font size="4"><b><span>But your subject was “Government Violence: The Missing Link in the Gun Control Debate.” Why do you…</span></b></font></p>
<p><font size="4"><b><span>Jerry,</span> I’d be curious to see one way in which the government caused the shooting.</b></font></p>
<p><span>“<font size="4"><b>Wake up and look around, what do you see?”</b></font></span></p>
<p><span>“<font size="4"><b>Good government or bad?” </b></font></span></p>
<p></p>
<p><font size="4"><b><span>Much of both. </span></b></font></p>
<p><font size="4"><b><span>But your subject was “Government Violence: The Missing Link in the Gun Control Debate.” Why do you raise other issues about government performance? Are these somehow related to the Sandy Hook shooting? </span></b></font></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Jerry, if I remember correctl…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2013-01-04:6451976:Comment:366232013-01-04T17:30:01.436ZRichard Waddellhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/RichardWaddell
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font size="4" style="font-size: 16pt;"><b>Jerry, if I remember correctly, you were raised in Arkansas and now live in Texas. I was raised in SW Missouri and now live in Oklahoma. I also lived about 5 years in Louisiana, and about a year in Fayetteville.</b></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font size="4" style="font-size: 16pt;"><b>What is significant about these red states? We know there is a large subculture in…</b></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b>Jerry, if I remember correctly, you were raised in Arkansas and now live in Texas. I was raised in SW Missouri and now live in Oklahoma. I also lived about 5 years in Louisiana, and about a year in Fayetteville.</b></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b>What is significant about these red states? We know there is a large subculture in these states that hates the federal government and another subculture that loves guns. There seems to be a large overlap between the two groups. Your statements, Jerry, seem to be reflections of rants I've heard most of my adult life. I'm suggesting it might be of some help to step outside your culture. </b></font></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b>This anger towards the federal government was probably initiated by the civil war. This anger was quite evident when our government integrated the Little Rock public schools. Much of the anger that I currently see comes from enforcement of alcohol and drug laws. Another component of anger seems to come from resentment of government help given to the poor.</b></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b>These two subcultures – known collectively as the “Right Wing” – never miss a chance to demonize our federal government. Based on statements made by Timothy McVeigh, the frenzy whipped up by this group led directly to the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.</b></font></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p>
<p><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b><span>I've heard the Right Wing rant for most of my adult life, and I tend to turn it off when someone complains, for example, that “heavily armed agents … enforce a myriad of arcane, bureaucratic regulations that impinge on Americans simply going about their business,” Frankly, I think this is a gross exaggeration. </span></b></font></p>
<p></p>
<p><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b><span>Also, it seems to me the 80,000 swat raids a year might be a tad exaggerated. </span></b></font></p>
<p></p>
<p><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b><span>Just because you can associate A (the government) with violence, and you can associate B (school shootings) with violence, doesn't mean that A caused B. There is much wrong with our government, and we should be concerned about loss of freedoms, but you haven't shown any reason for us to believe the violence at Newtown was in any way caused by our government.</span></b></font></p>