Re-imagining Generosity: Theme for Week of 12/2/12 - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T05:34:23Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/re-imagining-generosity?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A35677&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJerry, in my haste I neglecte…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-11:6451976:Comment:356772012-12-11T03:09:53.937ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Jerry, in my haste I neglected to acknowledge the love I feel in your response. You've used the term evangelize many times, which I must admit I back away from myself. It must be out past conditioning or of an old nightmare... getting held down those trying to make be believe what <em>they</em> think I should... and they won't turn me loose. </p>
<p>So, although I never once felt threatened by you, I take some comfort in your embracing words, and am thankful for perhaps knowing you a…</p>
<p>Jerry, in my haste I neglected to acknowledge the love I feel in your response. You've used the term evangelize many times, which I must admit I back away from myself. It must be out past conditioning or of an old nightmare... getting held down those trying to make be believe what <em>they</em> think I should... and they won't turn me loose. </p>
<p>So, although I never once felt threatened by you, I take some comfort in your embracing words, and am thankful for perhaps knowing you a little better. So vivid your vision: <em><br/></em></p>
<blockquote><p>We are wi-fi stations on a hookup with the universe, and sometimes with each other.</p>
<p></p>
</blockquote> Must someone be worthy to rec…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-09:6451976:Comment:356532012-12-09T21:13:36.152ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter" id="magicdomid6"><span class="fa-author-p-27442">Must someone be worthy to receive your generosity? </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442"> </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442">It''s messy for me to consider, just who could be a benefactor of my generosity. This gets right at the meaning of generosity, no? Is…</span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter" id="magicdomid6"><span class="fa-author-p-27442">Must someone be worthy to receive your generosity? </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442"> </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442">It''s messy for me to consider, just who could be a benefactor of my generosity. This gets right at the meaning of generosity, no? Is there thought, assessment, evaluation, comparison involved, or is it a spontaneous act? Surely, generosity is broader than simply the giving of money, going on into personal aspects of care, empathy, forgiveness, support, compassion... </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442"> </span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter" id="magicdomid8"><span class="fa-author-p-27442">Although I know I'm in plenty of company, I'm ashamed to admit that I harbor feelings of anger and mistrust for most politicians, I also don't have much sympathy for corporate execs who are often wealthy on the backs of working peope. And, its really hard for me to warm up to or have empathy for a 'know-it-all' or a self-centered person, or a con man. So, here is a vast span of humanity for whom I don't seem to have capability to be generous.</span></div>
<div class="ace-line gutter-author-p-27442 emptyGutter"><span class="fa-author-p-27442"> </span></div>
<p><span class="fa-author-p-27442">My wiser heart tells me we're all equally human... subject to suffering confused, contradictory, shallow lives of incessantly unfulfilled chasing of pleasure and happiness, and avoiding pain. Sharpening my attention and awareness of my relationships, digging deeper, perhaps one day I'll have the compassion. I don't like having this limitation.</span></p> Good of you to chime in Jerry…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-08:6451976:Comment:355922012-12-08T21:14:10.081ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Good of you to chime in Jerry. </p>
<p>We don't discuss God here much but I don't consider it taboo or in poor taste at all. I think there is a common attribute about the word Revelation that associates it with a revealing of something divine.</p>
<p>That something divine, however, can take many paths. Personally, I see that "Intelligence of Nature" can be a synonym for God. My other synonyms are Infinity, Love, Truth, Reality, Compassion, Selflessness, Knowledge, Bliss, Power, Beauty,…</p>
<p>Good of you to chime in Jerry. </p>
<p>We don't discuss God here much but I don't consider it taboo or in poor taste at all. I think there is a common attribute about the word Revelation that associates it with a revealing of something divine.</p>
<p>That something divine, however, can take many paths. Personally, I see that "Intelligence of Nature" can be a synonym for God. My other synonyms are Infinity, Love, Truth, Reality, Compassion, Selflessness, Knowledge, Bliss, Power, Beauty, Innocence...</p>
<p>So, it doesn't matter what someone names the powers & intelligence et.al., that are beyond humanity's comprehension. Nor would it seem God would require "belief" of any particular thing to have access to say, Truth or Love. If there really is such a thing as "God" it would seem only to facilitate an already nearly impossible journey. And if there is no such thing as "God" nothing is lost... except having to deal with the zealots who to one degree or another insist they "know" and all must follow their way.</p>
<p>Yes, there have been many revelations for me, but I don't have time to feel accomplishment because there is so much more to learn. It seems I must find ways to exercise a brutal honesty with myself and in my relationships to discern whether my intuitions (or revelations) are divine... or true.</p> Spiritual revelation is the m…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-08:6451976:Comment:357072012-12-08T14:15:17.528ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<blockquote><p><span>Spiritual revelation is the most wonderful process imaginable. Have found this to be true in your life?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, Jerry, my friend, my first answer would be "no." Perhaps it's the word "revelation," conjuring up an image of angelic visions or booming voices, that trips me up. Not necessarily what you are referring to, I imagine. So I'm curious about your own experience in this realm, and how it connects to generosity.</p>
<p>That said, I've…</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Spiritual revelation is the most wonderful process imaginable. Have found this to be true in your life?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, Jerry, my friend, my first answer would be "no." Perhaps it's the word "revelation," conjuring up an image of angelic visions or booming voices, that trips me up. Not necessarily what you are referring to, I imagine. So I'm curious about your own experience in this realm, and how it connects to generosity.</p>
<p>That said, I've certainly had many "aha!" moments as well as times when I felt deeply connected and open, that might qualify under a broader definition of a "revelation," although I think "awakening" fits better for me. More from Trunga, <em>op cit</em>:</p>
<blockquote><p>What the warrior renounces is anything in his experience that is a barrier between himself and others. In other words, renunciation is making yourself more available, more gentle and open to others...</p>
<p>Tenderness contains an element of sadness... It is not the sadness of feeling sorry for yourself, or feeling deprived, but is a natural situation of fullness. You feel so full and rich, as if you were about to shed tears. Your eyes are full of tears, and the moment you blink, the tears will spill out of your eyes and roll down your cheeks. In order to be a good warrior, one has to feel this sad and tender heart.</p>
</blockquote> I'm grateful Ben, for the way…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-07:6451976:Comment:355902012-12-07T19:27:02.932ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>I'm grateful Ben, for the ways you listen... looking for the possible ways to support, expending energy, reflecting, honoring... I wonder if you'd let me get away with pushing you further, toward saying in your words, how this poem makes you feel, even if you're not a guru.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>PS, I've noticed the curious fact that there are few others joining the dialogue here. How have we lost em.. or not engaged em? Is there something about dealing with generosity at large that daunting,…</p>
<p>I'm grateful Ben, for the ways you listen... looking for the possible ways to support, expending energy, reflecting, honoring... I wonder if you'd let me get away with pushing you further, toward saying in your words, how this poem makes you feel, even if you're not a guru.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>PS, I've noticed the curious fact that there are few others joining the dialogue here. How have we lost em.. or not engaged em? Is there something about dealing with generosity at large that daunting, or with one's own generosity that's threatening or shameful or guilty or scary...? Perhaps it's what we're not talking about, e.g. greed.</p>
<p></p> Love this, Dyck. Again remin…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-07:6451976:Comment:355892012-12-07T16:58:42.732ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Love this, Dyck. Again reminded of Chogyam Trungpa's <em><a href="http://www.shambhala.com/shambhala-3.html" target="_blank">Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior</a></em>.</p>
<blockquote><p>The way of the Great Eastern Sun is based on seeing that there is a natural source of radiance and brilliance in this world, which is the innate wakefulness of human beings.</p>
<p>The Dawn of the Great Eastern Sun is based on actual experience. It is not a concept. You realize that you can…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Love this, Dyck. Again reminded of Chogyam Trungpa's <em><a href="http://www.shambhala.com/shambhala-3.html" target="_blank">Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior</a></em>.</p>
<blockquote><p>The way of the Great Eastern Sun is based on seeing that there is a natural source of radiance and brilliance in this world, which is the innate wakefulness of human beings.</p>
<p>The Dawn of the Great Eastern Sun is based on actual experience. It is not a concept. You realize that you can uplift yourself, that you can appreciate your existence as a human being. Whether you are a gas station attendant or the president of your country doesn't really matter. When you experience the goodness of being alive, you can respect who and what you are... You begin to feel that it is a worthwhile situation to be a human being, to be alive, not afraid of death.</p>
</blockquote> The Sun Never Says
Even after…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-07:6451976:Comment:354952012-12-07T01:04:36.333ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p><strong>The Sun Never Says</strong></p>
<p><br/>Even after all this time</p>
<p>The sun never says to the earth</p>
<p>You owe me.</p>
<p>Look what happens</p>
<p>with a Love like that.</p>
<p>It lights the whole sky.</p>
<p>Hafiz</p>
<p><strong>The Sun Never Says</strong></p>
<p><br/>Even after all this time</p>
<p>The sun never says to the earth</p>
<p>You owe me.</p>
<p>Look what happens</p>
<p>with a Love like that.</p>
<p>It lights the whole sky.</p>
<p>Hafiz</p> Here's an Occupy Seattle acti…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-04:6451976:Comment:355722012-12-04T21:54:13.697ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Here's <a href="http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/07/seattle-occupy-activists-dump-5000-in.html" target="_blank">an Occupy Seattle action</a> from this past July that had a flavor similar to <em>The Generosity Project</em>, as it also involves marked bills.</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Activists tossed $5,000 off a downtown Seattle building Wednesday to protest money in politics. Dollar bills came swirling down just after 5 p.m. at Seventh Avenue and Pike Street, to the delight of tourists. The…</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Here's <a href="http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/07/seattle-occupy-activists-dump-5000-in.html" target="_blank">an Occupy Seattle action</a> from this past July that had a flavor similar to <em>The Generosity Project</em>, as it also involves marked bills.</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Activists tossed $5,000 off a downtown Seattle building Wednesday to protest money in politics. Dollar bills came swirling down just after 5 p.m. at Seventh Avenue and Pike Street, to the delight of tourists. The money was printed with the words "money as speech silences us all," a statement of protest against court rulings that consider political donations from businesses a form of free speech. According to the activists' website, the money will go back into general circulation and get their message out.</span></p>
</blockquote> Real interesting video, Ben.…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-04:6451976:Comment:354902012-12-04T15:51:40.008ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
Real interesting video, Ben. I'll need to run it do it a few times to digest it... no time to critique or assess or ponder. But, I'm picking up some fertile stuff at least about the overall construct of empathy. And also, thanks for your summary of the call.<br />
<br />
I sensed there is some distance yet to traverse in finding actual correlations between generosity and behaviors (more than just in thought). Like, what is the behavior connection to judgement or to abundance? Here's a slightly different…
Real interesting video, Ben. I'll need to run it do it a few times to digest it... no time to critique or assess or ponder. But, I'm picking up some fertile stuff at least about the overall construct of empathy. And also, thanks for your summary of the call.<br />
<br />
I sensed there is some distance yet to traverse in finding actual correlations between generosity and behaviors (more than just in thought). Like, what is the behavior connection to judgement or to abundance? Here's a slightly different tack to try.<br />
<br />
Describe a time when you witnessed a generous act of another and how it affected you. Here are some ideas that stoo…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-12-04:6451976:Comment:349942012-12-04T15:10:38.533ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Here are some ideas that stood out for me in yesterday's Cafe Call (<a href="http://occupycafe.podcastpeople.com/posts/48967" target="_blank">podcast now available here</a>):</p>
<ul>
<li>We "outsource generosity" showed up again, with the suggestion that we are reluctant both to give and to request time, expertise and real connection (feelings/an open heart), substituting money as an easier approach.</li>
<li>Generosity thrives on a perception of abundance--of being and having (more than?)…</li>
</ul>
<p>Here are some ideas that stood out for me in yesterday's Cafe Call (<a href="http://occupycafe.podcastpeople.com/posts/48967" target="_blank">podcast now available here</a>):</p>
<ul>
<li>We "outsource generosity" showed up again, with the suggestion that we are reluctant both to give and to request time, expertise and real connection (feelings/an open heart), substituting money as an easier approach.</li>
<li>Generosity thrives on a perception of abundance--of being and having (more than?) enough. If we are too worried about meeting our own basic needs now and in the future, the impulse to give can struggle to come through.<ul>
<li>Two interesting questions also emerge from this notion: to what degree are we naturally inclined to generosity? And how does this compare with our more selfish instincts? I would argue that giving is as deeply rooted in our social animal psyches as self-preservation, and this is not limited to our immediate families, but extends at the very least to whatever "tribal identities" we can develop. And given our increasing sense of global inter-connectedness, is it possible we can truly come to see all of humanity as one tribe, as Jeremy Rifkin's posits in the Empathic Civilization (see below)?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Opportunities for generosity abound--our communities are hungry for them if only we would look with open eyes and hearts</li>
<li>Sometimes "gifts" can do harm--beware of enabling or of giving for the "wrong reasons" (a subject for further discussion, no doubt--perhaps on this Thursday's <em><a href="http://myaccount.maestroconference.com/conference/register/PZ5C0PGRXLHHPHS6" target="_blank">Occupy Heart</a></em> call).</li>
<li>True generosity springs from a non-judgmental place in our hearts and minds. How often do we choose to shame others rather than open ourselves to their experience? This was the lesson of the story Dyck told about his grandmother, which you can hear at the 53:30 mark on <a href="http://occupycafe.podcastpeople.com/posts/48967" target="_blank">our podcast</a>.</li>
</ul>
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