The $#@%! Election: Vital Conversation for the Week of 10/29 - Occupy Cafe2024-03-28T16:14:53Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/the-election-vital-conversation-for-the-week-of-10-29?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A34038&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThere was no intention of rep…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:342832012-11-07T22:23:18.368ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>There was no intention of repudiation on my part... simply answering directly your two questions.</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Do you mean we are here to be the mess?</span></p>
<p>We are part of the whole, we are leading edge of the whole’s evolution, and we are the proof of harmony. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Can “WE” grow assuming we do not fit the cosmic harmony?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'll let it rest here.</p>
<p>There was no intention of repudiation on my part... simply answering directly your two questions.</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Do you mean we are here to be the mess?</span></p>
<p>We are part of the whole, we are leading edge of the whole’s evolution, and we are the proof of harmony. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Can “WE” grow assuming we do not fit the cosmic harmony?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'll let it rest here.</p> Very nice link for me, it men…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:341882012-11-07T20:28:30.963ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Very nice link for me, it mentions two of my compatriots: Wislawa Szymborska and Marie Curie.</p>
<p>I am afraid however it misses another part of "knowledge" and "context", the inner one.</p>
<p><em>Integral theory</em> to be applied - IMHO:-)</p>
<p>Very nice link for me, it mentions two of my compatriots: Wislawa Szymborska and Marie Curie.</p>
<p>I am afraid however it misses another part of "knowledge" and "context", the inner one.</p>
<p><em>Integral theory</em> to be applied - IMHO:-)</p> Ben, if I deserve any answer…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:344342012-11-07T20:12:45.165ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Ben, if I deserve any answer to my post above we should move the discussion to <em>Choice or Consequences</em> thread and mean much more than electoral choice...</p>
<p>Ben, if I deserve any answer to my post above we should move the discussion to <em>Choice or Consequences</em> thread and mean much more than electoral choice...</p> 1. I feel repudiated without…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:342762012-11-07T20:04:19.275ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p><b>1. </b> I feel repudiated without trying to be understood, without stating reason. What you wrote in brackets is exactly what I “know” and think.</p>
<p><b>2. </b> <i>Deduction</i>: do you mean <i>deductive reasoning</i> or <i>natural deduction</i>?</p>
<p><b>3.</b> <i>“Somehow communicate to restore harmony”</i> is the idea I am committed to. You say we must do it on the <i>Gifts</i> thread... If some of us choose to broadcast and some choose to listen it is not yet a…</p>
<p><b>1. </b> I feel repudiated without trying to be understood, without stating reason. What you wrote in brackets is exactly what I “know” and think.</p>
<p><b>2. </b> <i>Deduction</i>: do you mean <i>deductive reasoning</i> or <i>natural deduction</i>?</p>
<p><b>3.</b> <i>“Somehow communicate to restore harmony”</i> is the idea I am committed to. You say we must do it on the <i>Gifts</i> thread... If some of us choose to broadcast and some choose to listen it is not yet a communication!</p>
<p><b>4. </b>Do you assume the level of inner awareness appropriate to establish convergence for such communication is inaccessible?</p>
<p><b>5.</b> We are dependent on cosmic harmony – does it mean for you we are impotent to grasp common fallacy of our understandings and work together to reset it? Isn’t consciousness a gift we should value, nurse and grow?</p>
<p><b>6.</b> I am not demading any answer, I just hope for it. I am not afraid to be received pushy – eventually you are not obliged to answer. No answer will be as good as any. Or, at least, more clear...</p> To Dick, Pawel, Ben and ...e…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:342752012-11-07T19:07:10.944ZHarvey W. Austin, MDhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/HarveyWAustinMD
<p>To Dick, Pawel, Ben and ...et al.</p>
<p>I came across this beautiful essay which speaks to the false assumptions that are at the core of so many issues. They are the triple <strong>Myths of Our Times... 'I", "is" and "because". </strong> These are the underlying assumptions of so much of our logic... and, upon examination, show up as false. …</p>
<p></p>
<p>To Dick, Pawel, Ben and ...et al.</p>
<p>I came across this beautiful essay which speaks to the false assumptions that are at the core of so many issues. They are the triple <strong>Myths of Our Times... 'I", "is" and "because". </strong> These are the underlying assumptions of so much of our logic... and, upon examination, show up as false. </p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://landmarkinsights.com/landmark-forum-leader-article/myth-busting-context-is-the-game-changer/" target="_blank">http://landmarkinsights.com/landmark-forum-leader-article/myth-bust...</a></p> I know we've strayed far from…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:343592012-11-07T19:03:48.725ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>I know we've strayed far from the topic of the election on this thread, which is fine. I did want to share Naomi Wolf's new piece <a href="http://rsnorg.org/opinion2/277-75/14351-focus-a-cure-for-americas-corruptible-voting-system" target="_blank">A Cure for America's Corruptible Voting System</a> however, which contains a very simple and compelling suggestion for allowing voters to self-verify the accuracy of the count, which is one thing that has concerned me and others posting here…</p>
<p>I know we've strayed far from the topic of the election on this thread, which is fine. I did want to share Naomi Wolf's new piece <a href="http://rsnorg.org/opinion2/277-75/14351-focus-a-cure-for-americas-corruptible-voting-system" target="_blank">A Cure for America's Corruptible Voting System</a> however, which contains a very simple and compelling suggestion for allowing voters to self-verify the accuracy of the count, which is one thing that has concerned me and others posting here greatly:</p>
<blockquote><p class="indent">Here is my modest proposal: let us end the secret ballot, because we have reached a point, with the internet, in which transparency and accountability is more important than absolute secrecy. Don't panic, because this is what I mean: your vote won't be publicly available, but why can't I get a number when I hand in my ballot, or when I vote in a machine – just as I do with bloodwork, or computer passwords, or other transactions in which I get accountability, but not disclosure of my actual name? Then, the votes get tallied and posted – with their corresponding numbers – online on a public site, and major media reproduce the lists. And I can check my number (unidentifiable to anyone else) to check whether my vote was correctly registered.</p>
<p class="indent">This would allow, in one sweep, all citizens to watch the watchers. It does not compel anyone to reveal his or her vote – but gives him or her the option of challenging a discrepancy, and the means to verify what he or she had actually intended to do. And in one easy, inexpensive, technically feasible gesture, it takes the power away from the Diebold-type private corporations and the various parties and the officials, and allows actual verification that cannot be spun or falsified. Most importantly, it removes a psychological blinder, which the American people are asked to wear every two and four years – the blinder that infantilizes us, that has highly interested individuals and groups say to us, "we are impartial, this is a magically noble and incorruptible process: trust us."</p>
</blockquote>
<p></p> Your question: Do you mean w…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:344312012-11-07T16:32:14.348ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>Your question: Do you mean we are here to be the mess?</p>
<p>The statements you posted quoting me deal only with behavior and deduction, not intention or purpose. (I wasn't talking about the purpose of life here... and my comment about cosmic harmony is that it <em>includes</em> us... not dependent on us, we're dependent on it... it defines us... not the other way round.)</p>
<p></p>
<p>Your question: Do you mean we are here to be the mess?</p>
<p>The statements you posted quoting me deal only with behavior and deduction, not intention or purpose. (I wasn't talking about the purpose of life here... and my comment about cosmic harmony is that it <em>includes</em> us... not dependent on us, we're dependent on it... it defines us... not the other way round.)</p>
<p></p> One more quote:
"Yet we must…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:344292012-11-07T09:31:04.397ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>One more quote:</p>
<ul>
<li><em>"Yet we must live together and somehow communicate to find harmony."</em></li>
</ul>
<p>Could you help me harmonize this one with the one in my previous post?</p>
<p>One more quote:</p>
<ul>
<li><em>"Yet we must live together and somehow communicate to find harmony."</em></li>
</ul>
<p>Could you help me harmonize this one with the one in my previous post?</p> Dyck, in spite of the overall…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:342742012-11-07T09:18:39.065ZPawel Klewinhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/PawelKlewin
<p>Dyck, in spite of the overall tone of your post I hope I am entitled to answer in the context of <i>growth</i> and <i>collaboration.</i></p>
<p>Can’t we collaborate mutually to grow? Whatever you say resonates with what I feel and think. Why can’t we grow together?</p>
<p>E.g. I share your view on books and quotes. Can I however quote you – and try one more question referring to the quote?</p>
<div><blockquote><p><i>It isn't logical to me how we can do anything but let off steam...when one…</i></p>
</blockquote>
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<p>Dyck, in spite of the overall tone of your post I hope I am entitled to answer in the context of <i>growth</i> and <i>collaboration.</i></p>
<p>Can’t we collaborate mutually to grow? Whatever you say resonates with what I feel and think. Why can’t we grow together?</p>
<p>E.g. I share your view on books and quotes. Can I however quote you – and try one more question referring to the quote?</p>
<div><blockquote><p><i>It isn't logical to me how we can do anything but let off steam...when one doesn't even acknowledge fully their part in creating the mess....</i></p>
<p><i>And when the millions like me are all put together in one place we make a hell of a mess...</i></p>
</blockquote>
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<p>Do you mean we are here to be the mess?</p>
<p>We are part of the whole, we are leading edge of the whole’s evolution, and we are the proof of harmony. Can “WE” grow assuming we do not fit the cosmic harmony?</p> I don't usually read books ot…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-11-07:6451976:Comment:343562012-11-07T01:06:04.496ZDyck Dewidhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/DyckDewid
<p>I don't usually read books others recommend. The best way for anyone to suggest I 'know' something is to demonstrate how they understand & live it. Quoting is fine but in my construct the quotation DOES NOT imply the writer knows it too... so there is no gain in credibility, if that is their purpose. Ben DOES demonstrate understanding of Wheatley's work and I don't yet feel a need to read the whole work.</p>
<p>I realize that when people refer a book, they are telling me what is…</p>
<p>I don't usually read books others recommend. The best way for anyone to suggest I 'know' something is to demonstrate how they understand & live it. Quoting is fine but in my construct the quotation DOES NOT imply the writer knows it too... so there is no gain in credibility, if that is their purpose. Ben DOES demonstrate understanding of Wheatley's work and I don't yet feel a need to read the whole work.</p>
<p>I realize that when people refer a book, they are telling me what is significant TO THEM. I take this as a positive sign of growth. I know that I cannot participate in their growth... only in my own (& what is relevant to me).</p>
<p></p>