Where are we at, what has worked well and what is "missing' now? - Occupy Cafe2024-03-29T05:26:05Zhttp://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/where-is-the-movement-at-and-what-is-missing-now?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A26387&feed=yes&xn_auth=noTammy: thanks for contributin…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-09-12:6451976:Comment:316332012-09-12T13:58:32.763ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Tammy: thanks for contributing to this thread. It's a pretty old one though, and you've posted a comment deep in the middle of it, so if this is something you want to connect with people about more, we might want to find another spot to do so.</p>
<p>Interesting that you're highlighting food, by the way. Transforming our food system is one of my passions as well, and it seems to be coming up in a number of conversations I'm having lately. Are you aware of any social enterprise initiatives…</p>
<p>Tammy: thanks for contributing to this thread. It's a pretty old one though, and you've posted a comment deep in the middle of it, so if this is something you want to connect with people about more, we might want to find another spot to do so.</p>
<p>Interesting that you're highlighting food, by the way. Transforming our food system is one of my passions as well, and it seems to be coming up in a number of conversations I'm having lately. Are you aware of any social enterprise initiatives in L.A. that address some of the issues here? Work on the food waste opportunity you mention perhaps, or on ways to hep urban farmers succeed? If so, let's start a new thread about it. I'll also send you a personal message about this in case you don't spot the reply.</p> I live in Los Angeles, and I…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-09-11:6451976:Comment:316302012-09-11T23:28:15.803ZTammy Shaverhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/TammyShaver
<p>I live in Los Angeles, and I agree that what you have listed certainly is a factor. Growing our own food is one way. Another way is to get the stores to stop throwing away all the food they put in the dumpster at the end of the day, and this is even with some of them giving donations to the missions.</p>
<p>I live in Los Angeles, and I agree that what you have listed certainly is a factor. Growing our own food is one way. Another way is to get the stores to stop throwing away all the food they put in the dumpster at the end of the day, and this is even with some of them giving donations to the missions.</p> Check your inbox. We finally…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-27:6451976:Comment:268912012-06-27T11:48:48.382ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Check your inbox. We finally sent out our main invite. Meant to also attach a pdf flyer, but that didn't happen, so I am pasting it in below , and will also send it out in a broadcast message to OC.org members once we get the hotlinks active on it later this morning.…</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503543057?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503543057?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a></p>
<p>Check your inbox. We finally sent out our main invite. Meant to also attach a pdf flyer, but that didn't happen, so I am pasting it in below , and will also send it out in a broadcast message to OC.org members once we get the hotlinks active on it later this morning.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503543057?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503543057?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p> Christopher Wroth writes abo…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-27:6451976:Comment:269392012-06-27T09:35:45.458ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Christopher Wroth <a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/where-is-the-movement-at-and-what-is-missing-now?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A26715" target="_blank">writes above</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p> It is OK to talk in a cafe, but it is just an ego exercise until our loud protest matches our talk out on the street.</p>
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<p>Ouch! Now I get your energy here a bit better, man! It is true that I sometimes feel guilty about my contribution to the movement being the…</p>
<p>Christopher Wroth <a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/forum/topics/where-is-the-movement-at-and-what-is-missing-now?commentId=6451976%3AComment%3A26715" target="_blank">writes above</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p> It is OK to talk in a cafe, but it is just an ego exercise until our loud protest matches our talk out on the street.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ouch! Now I get your energy here a bit better, man! It is true that I sometimes feel guilty about my contribution to the movement being the co-creation of this Cafe from the comfort of my suburban home, rather than the manning of the barricades. OK, I marched on MayDay too. But still...</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are a lot more of us who do not want to be arrested than who do. Some for reasons I think are fairly unimpeachable, e.g. people with criminal records, especially if they are on parole, or undocumented immigrants, or people with others (children or the elderly) who rely on their daily support.</p>
<p>The simple fact is that for everyone who is willing to engage in civil disobedience and be arrested (or sleep in a park), there are tens of thousands (millions?) of potential allies in this fight who are not. <em>Would Occupy benefit from offering more ways for these people, and the organizations many of them are connected to, to not only actively support but actually be warmly embraced as being a part of the movement?</em> I think more ways for this to happen (and more friendly invitations for people to engage in this way and be honored for doing so) might be one of the key "missings" for the movement.</p>
<p>I think so. AND I really appreciate and admire those who are risking so much out on the front lines. Your howls of pain and protest have helped galvanize the world.</p> Hello,
I wanted to let you kn…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-27:6451976:Comment:268832012-06-27T06:46:40.161ZKellyAngelPdxhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/KellyAngelPdx
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I wanted to let you know I have been inviting people to the Nat Gat conference calls like a mad woman on Facebook. I know there is so much more detail, but I didn't want it to be any longer than it had to be, here is what I have been posting: <br></br><br></br>Most of us do not have the time/money to make it to the Occupy National Gathering in Philly, but thanks to Occupy Cafe, you can participate in community building conversations and make connections with people on the ground via…</p>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I wanted to let you know I have been inviting people to the Nat Gat conference calls like a mad woman on Facebook. I know there is so much more detail, but I didn't want it to be any longer than it had to be, here is what I have been posting: <br/><br/>Most of us do not have the time/money to make it to the Occupy National Gathering in Philly, but thanks to Occupy Cafe, you can participate in community building conversations and make connections with people on the ground via conference call.<br/><br/>All Conference Call Times below are PST (West Coast Time):<br/>• Saturday June 30: 7am-10am<br/>• Sunday July 1: 10:00am- 1pm<br/><span class="text_exposed_show">• Monday July 2: 6am- 9am<br/>• Tuesday July 3: 6am- 9am<br/>• Wednesday July 4: 6am- 9am<br/><br/>East Coast Times: <br/>Saturday June 30: 10am-1pm<br/>Sunday July 1: 1-4pm<br/>Monday July 2: 9am-12pm<br/>Tuesday July 3: 9am-12pm<br/>Wednesday July 4: 9am-12pm<br/><br/>The conversation has already started online! Go to Occupycafe.org to join in the online forum, find out more about proposed topics, and/or sign up for the conference calls! <a href="http://www.occupycafe.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow nofollow">http://www.occupycafe.org/</a></span> </p> Wow, that is a good story...…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-25:6451976:Comment:266732012-06-25T23:14:52.019ZNathanhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/Nathan
<p>Wow, that is a good story... and I understand the difficult decisions that have to be made between accomplishing something, and accomplishing everything. Hard to say for sure which is "right", should BFL have taken the deal, even though that's only a portion of what Occupy wants to accomplish? Would that have lead the group towards more cooperation with the city, or was the deal just a "payoff" to get Occupy to shut up? Hard to say. Anyway, interesting to hear that more-organized groups…</p>
<p>Wow, that is a good story... and I understand the difficult decisions that have to be made between accomplishing something, and accomplishing everything. Hard to say for sure which is "right", should BFL have taken the deal, even though that's only a portion of what Occupy wants to accomplish? Would that have lead the group towards more cooperation with the city, or was the deal just a "payoff" to get Occupy to shut up? Hard to say. Anyway, interesting to hear that more-organized groups aren't necessarily accomplishing any more than the rest of us...</p> Hmmmm, well I'm helping with…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-25:6451976:Comment:269252012-06-25T23:05:08.195ZNathanhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/Nathan
<p>Hmmmm, well I'm helping with communications stuff, helping to get the word out, and I'd say that falls under the "changing the public discourse" success that we've discussed. So I'll keep doing that as long as it keeps working. </p>
<p>And some dedicated homelss folks still continue the occupation despite many hardships, so as long as they're there, I'll keep bringing them supplies and trying to keep things going, because I think our government rulers and employees should be forced to look…</p>
<p>Hmmmm, well I'm helping with communications stuff, helping to get the word out, and I'd say that falls under the "changing the public discourse" success that we've discussed. So I'll keep doing that as long as it keeps working. </p>
<p>And some dedicated homelss folks still continue the occupation despite many hardships, so as long as they're there, I'll keep bringing them supplies and trying to keep things going, because I think our government rulers and employees should be forced to look at them every single day until something is actually done to help.</p>
<p>And our legal team kicks ass! I can't claim any credit there, but as long as the ACLU and other socially-minded attorneys continue to help, so will I.</p>
<p>But these efforts have reached a plateau in terms of output. What we NEED is to become organized, have some solidarity, stop the in-fighting and witch hunts, and approach our elected officials as a unified group with clear goals. How we get to that point is anyone's guess... idk.</p> Mark ~ As regards my mistake…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-25:6451976:Comment:267692012-06-25T21:08:28.496ZChristopher Wrothhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/ChristopherWroth
<p>Mark ~ As regards my mistake about your support of CD, I stand corrected. ~ Chris</p>
<p>Mark ~ As regards my mistake about your support of CD, I stand corrected. ~ Chris</p> Here's a GroupWorks card to i…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-25:6451976:Comment:267482012-06-25T13:42:09.185ZBen Robertshttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/BenRoberts
<p>Here's a <a href="http://www.groupworksdeck.org/" target="_blank">GroupWorks</a> card to inspire and guide our discussion (h/t Angel Kelly):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.groupworksdeck.org/patterns/Trajectory" target="_blank"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503542818?profile=original" width="300" class="align-full"/></a></p>
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<p>Here's a <a href="http://www.groupworksdeck.org/" target="_blank">GroupWorks</a> card to inspire and guide our discussion (h/t Angel Kelly):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.groupworksdeck.org/patterns/Trajectory" target="_blank"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1503542818?profile=original" width="300" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p> Christopher, I think going t…tag:www.occupycafe.org,2012-06-24:6451976:Comment:267162012-06-24T18:42:21.215ZMark E. Smithhttp://www.occupycafe.org/profile/MarkESmith
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<p>Christopher, I think going to jail had a different meaning and value prior to the advent of the prison-industrial complex. The Egyptian military junta imprisoned (and tortured) more than fifteen thousand (15,000) protesters, and the US gave them the training, crowd control weapons (including more than 40 tons of tear gas), and paid them over a billion dollars a year to do it. The Egyptians had no success at all. The military junta (funded by the US and controlled by Israel through…</p>
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<p>Christopher, I think going to jail had a different meaning and value prior to the advent of the prison-industrial complex. The Egyptian military junta imprisoned (and tortured) more than fifteen thousand (15,000) protesters, and the US gave them the training, crowd control weapons (including more than 40 tons of tear gas), and paid them over a billion dollars a year to do it. The Egyptians had no success at all. The military junta (funded by the US and controlled by Israel through the US) still runs the country, the protesters, those who weren't killed outright or blinded by sniper bullets, are still in prison and still being tortured, and the Egyptians aren't sure what to try next.</p>
<p>The US already has more prisoners than any other country in the world. And this country has maximum security prisons with Communications Management Units where prisoners are not allowed to speak with each other and have extremely limited contact with the outside world, to prevent them organizing.</p>
<p>Unless you're prepared for guerrilla warfare, which most of us are not, I don't think that physical confrontations are a good idea. Remember that the Vietnam protests failed and the US is engaged in more wars now than it was then. The Civil Rights movement also failed, as did Abolition. Black slaves are now called prisoners and their slavery is called prison labor, but there are more of them now than prior to Abolition. There are fewer lynchings because most blacks are killed by the police rather than the KKK or vigilantes (with some exceptions, of course), but the number of blacks killed by whites hasn't decreased. And it is still extremely rare for whites who kill blacks to be held accountable. Going into prisons where there are huge gangs and torture is routinely practiced by the administration isn't a good way to organize, in my opinion, as it is usually all an individual can do just to stay alive.</p>
<p>As for civil disobedience, here's something I posted recently to an anarchist website where somebody had suggested that we need to stop whining and carrying signs and start smashing things:</p>
<blockquote><p>Speaking of whining and carrying signs, I just saw this Tweet:</p>
<div>"Never participated in a direct action before? #OWS #summerdisobedianceschool is in session every Saturday through August 11th."<br/><br/></div>
<p>People who need to go to school to learn how to be disobedient, would need years of graduate studies before they could smash anything. And by then they'd be too brainwashed to consider it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What works? Legal gardens work. Food Not Bombs works. Food Not Lawns works. Transition Towns seem to be working. Cooperatives and collectives work. Protests don't work. The Iraq war was preceded by the largest protests ever, which were simply ignored. Online networking works. People can share vital information and ideas without being beaten or arrested.</p>
<p>Christopher, it is your right to go to prison if you think it will help, but I don't think that you going to prison will make me or anyone else more free. Perhaps an argument could be made that diverting some taxpayer money from war and into the prison industry is a form of progress, but it isn't a form of progress I can support. Thoreau never envisioned a prison industrial complex.</p>
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