Occupy Cafe is launching a systematic inquiry into the evolution of the #Occupy movement.  

NOTE: This discussion was part of "Round 1" of our inquiry and is now closed.  Our conversation continues with our "Round 2" thread here.  And help us harvest more from this round here.

The questions below were taken up during a Cafe Call on 11/15.  Participants in that call, as well as subsequent readers of this thread, posted their reflections here and then continued the conversation.

We are now pausing for a "harvesting phase," where we "listen together" and reflect on what has been said.  There is a discussion thread in our "Harvesting" group here, where we can share what we have gleaned.  Please join us in this collective meaning-making process.

Below is the post that initiated this conversation:

I first heard the term "Occupy 2.0" from Walt Roberts a couple of days ago, as he anticipated the dismantling of Occupy Portland where he has been active.  Occupy Cafe is launching an inquiry starting today into the question of what this might look like.  We plan to collectively craft a vision, or set of visions for the future of this movement as an offering of support to all those who have fought so hard thus far.  

To all those brave souls in the encampments: you have already succeeding in radically changing the dialogue in this country and around the world and our thanks and gratitude and admiration go out to you.  What might be possible now?

We begin with this inquiry:

  • What are the most positive things you have experienced emerging from Occupy 1.0?
  • What are the dilemmas/opportunities in the current situation of the Occupy Movement?
  • What question, if answered, might make the greatest difference in the development of an effective response to the clearing of so many #Occupy sites?  


Ben Roberts,

Occupy Cafe Steward

Views: 1858

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies to This Discussion

One man's "straw man" is another man's blind spot. Dig it!

"No one is a victim, except by choice."

I believe the choice is to feel/think/act like a victim or not to do so.  Much is done and happens uninvited that sets one back.

Most of us are victims.  Some choose to cower.  Some choose to try again or try something else.  When trying this and that is too trying and becomes exhausting, human resources are going to waste; there is injustice.

To understand my comment, it is necessary to understand my context.

Back in the late 60s and early 70s, I began reading about how powerful humans are outside of their awareness of their own power.  There were easy steps given to create things and situations that I want in my reality. I tested this, and found - miracle of miracles - that it works.  I can manifest just about anything if I am willing to invest a few minutes a day in conscious thought.

This led me to wonder if the power of thought was powerful enough to protect me from a violent attacker.  I wasn't trusting the power enough to intentionally put myself in such a situation, but intent wondering is enough to see a situation manifest, and there I was, in a very terrifying situation.  Rather than succumb to my fear, I relaxed and put myself in a place of peace.  The attacker walked away.

I didn't connect the two, but simply thought that it was a strange occurrence.  But the more confidence I had in my power to create, the more I wondered about just how powerful I am.  Lo and behold, a few years later, I found myself facing an imminent lethal attack.  Understanding that I was going to die right then, I instinctively found the place of peace and prepared for death.  I wasn't afraid.  I wasn't terrorized.  I was 100% at peace (with peace).  Story too long to tell here, but the attacker again went away, and it all fell into place. Peace is a power - a legitimate and impressive power.

In a nutshell, I have the power to manifest food, clothing, and shelter - not to mention peace - in my own reality.  I can choose what I want manifested - and I have manifested some incredible things.  I cannot manifest it for you because you are the god of your reality, and you may not like what I want you to have/do/be.

This worldview can only make sense if one understands that we live in a multiverse rather than a universe.  I am the god of my "dimension" (reality) and you are the god of yours.  No one can threaten me in any meaningful way unless I forget to put myself in that place of peace, or if I refuse to - which would only happen if I saw that my death would be translated in some positive way for the benefit of me and my society. And even THAT would only happen if I found that there was no meaningful purpose in my own continued life. So, in THAT context, there is no injustice.  It's all very rational and all very just.  We get what we ask for.  The trick is to know what you are asking for so as not to be surprised when it appears.

It is this awareness of the fact that humans are not autonomous and disconnected bags of flesh, water, and bones, that led me to become interested in quantum physics, and then what some call "gnostic" or "noetic" science -- the study of human consciousness.

In this study, it was found that if ONE PERCENT of a population does nothing more than meditate together twice a day, there can be vast QUANTIFIABLE improvements in a society.

I wish that EVERYONE would test this idea, thus discovering his/her own power.  What a wonderful world we could live in if the basis for our irrational fears (we don't know the extent of our own powers) would simply be erased.  Our social, religious, and economic systems are rooted in fear.  These systems REQUIRE us to see victim-hood as a legitimate explanation for why bad things happen to good people.  I don't recognize that legitimacy any more, just as I do not recognize the legitimacy of a volcano god who is hungry when the mountain rumbles or angry when it spews fire and lava

When fear is removed from the worldview, WORLDS of opportunity open and come into view.  This is the knowledge we need to fix what is wrong in the world.

If people knew about this power, they could practice it and become confident in it and begin paying attention to what they are thinking.  When they are aware of what they spend their time thinking about, they can begin to connect the dots.  It does take practice.  When I began checking my thoughts, I used an egg timer, but I couldn't hold my concentration on my thoughts for even three minutes.  I switched to a digital time, and by working backwards, I found that I could only maintain my conscious awareness for 12 seconds.  It only took a few days to grow that to 20 minutes.

If a group of people believed in this, they could sustain one another and encourage one another, and progress will be much faster.  My journey was (and is) a very isolated one.

There is an inherent morality in this worldview.  As I do to others - or think about others - those thoughts come back to me manifested as consequences in my own life.  Therefore it serves ME well to treat others the way I want to be treated.  There is no time that my power is turned off.  For most people, their awareness of that power never quite surfaces.  Those are the people who need words like victim and injustice to explain what is not otherwise explainable for them.

If we can get people working on this - and it is FUN when things appear - while we work on alternate non-fear-based economic models, it will come together quite naturally and very quickly.  We will have created the economic model that reflects who and what humankind has become.

I call those who are like me "gnewmans" (gnostic humans - those who have arrived at the next step in the evolution of humankind.  I'm quite certain that all will get here eventually.  Science can't be kept down forever.

I do not perceive evil.  I do  not believe in its legitimacy.  Right and wrong runs rather along those lines, but I still (too often) need to remind myself to look beyond the mistaken belief that I hold that causes me to perceive wrongness where none exists. (Mistaken belief is always - I am a body.  Intentionally erase that belief and I again see you in your perfection and I understand that you are moving in  your own direction and all that you do benefits the whole.)

When I am an all-powerful being (thought construct in motion), there is no need to judge good / evil or right / wrong because no one can harm me without my consent.  When I remember who I am, I remember who you are.  We are both perfect - perfectly incomplete - always evolving.

Here there is freedom.  In the other world, the world that the Occupy movement is trying to change,  there is only slavery.  Still, we can (and I hope we will) use that slavery as a springboard that will lift all of humanity to their rightful places as gods of their realities - consciously aware of and in contact with the greater whole that we are.  to do this, we must all become conversant in the universal language that constantly flows among us outside of the awareness of those who do not pay attention.  But that's the easy part.

I was part of Fred Burke's web-based selective community for a while, but the long, dark and very ugly shadow that was cast from his ego caused a rebellion among his minions and a number of the best (mostly women who were insulted by Fred's need to literally expose and brag about his sexual prowess to the group) left in disgust.

Be wary of self-described "gurus" of the New Age. They are all-too-human and often corrupted by the power that they wield.

No one is more dangerous (and more self-deluded) than one who believes themselves more highly evolved than the rest of us.

You say you don't "believe in fairies or magical spells", but you believe in another kind of magic - the power of one to manifest anything. Sai Baba was worshiped and adored by millions for, among other things, his ability to manifest things - and yet his former disciples have revealed that it was all simple trickery to impress the credulous. 

Yes, there are powers that are available to us and that have been used by indigenous shamans and healers for millennia. But, as we know from that history, any power wielded by an individual who believes it to be "her" power can also be abused and used for evil (black magic, voodoo). 

In truth, "we" don't have any power. We can be clear channels for the Universe to act through us, or we can taint that power by calling it "ours", in which case it is subject to misuse or abuse and merely reinforces ego.

I do wish that you would test my ideas before you attack them so fiercely.  Just TEST them.  See if they work. That's what I asked.  That  shouldn't be offensive.

If they don't work for yout, what have you lost but a few minutes for a few days.  If they do - what have you gained?  Too much to describe.

I clearly said that I have no power over you if you don't want me to - and nothing in the universe can change that. I don't want power over you.  My own life is interesting enough, thank you.  I will live the life that "I" have.

I have also said that you are AS powerful as I am - within your own reality.  If you don't want to accept that, then don't.  Your life is your life to live as you will. 

If you accept and embrace your own power, your fears will go away.  You will become the master of your own fate.  No one will be able to control or manipulate you.  No one will make you angry or afraid.  No one will force you into a position that you do not want to be in.  Do you find that objectionable?

And as to my being dangerous and self-deluded - I can assure you that I am no better than  you, but I am wiser than you and more knowledgeable than you about many things.

In any case, if you like who you are and like being angry and afraid all of the time, it's your life.  Live it as you will.  It is not my business how you choose.  You cannot harm me.  You cannot force me to become angry.   I do not allow it.  I wish you only  happiness, and if your current attitude brings you joy, then I wish that - and all its consequences - for you.

Be very wary, OWS Cafe patrons, of anyone pretending to tell you "the whole truth" or "what's REALLY going on" and offering "real solutions, empowering us with unprecedented and bold strategies for reclaiming our lives and our future."

Yes, we all know there are conspiracies happening amongst both the elites and the downtrodden (conspire means "to breathe together"), but it is far too facile to string them all together into a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY as too many today are wont to do.

The New World Order, or One World Government, conspiracy idea was first invented by the John Birch Society decades ago, which saw the United Nations (created to prevent a third world war and to share resources globally) as a threat to national sovereignty and, hence, yet another threat to the personal sovereignty that is the bedrock of right-wing libertarians and Ayn Rand devotees. 

Now that people across the ideological spectrum almost universally feel disempowered by the social, governmental and economic institutions of the world, it seems everyone is looking for a focal point to blame for their troubles and to consider THE ENEMY.

So even lefties, liberals and New Agers have jumped on the bandwagon and even extended the very real stranglehold on the world stage that the non-democratic UN Security Council wields to everything which comes out of the UN or smacks of globalism - including the UN Agenda 21 for global sustainability.

Unfortunately, there is no single enemy (other than our collective paradigm) and we are each as culpable for our collective problems as any real or imagined elite network or cabal, and there is no single "cure" or "solution" or pathway to Utopia.

Hi Robert,

I sense you are right in what you are writing here about there being no SINGLE enemy to blame for what is going on. If fact, I feel that very idea of an "enemy" solidifies one for us in our experience. Any global conclusion is a great over-simplification. Life is much more intricate, complex, mysterious and ever changing.

I agree that there may be no single "cure" or "solution" or "pathway to Utopia" that fits all situations. Yet, in my own personal experience, some pathways sure work better than others most of the time.  I find that remembering to first work within myself is always the optimal first step to bringing about change out there.

Here is an immediate example.  In the thread here about the current public image of the Occupy Movement,  an individual started to launch into what to me were quite severe personal attacks on other posters in the discussion.  I noticed myself feeling a clench in my belly and a desire to stop this person and protect those he was writing harshly to.  Then I remembered to stop, occupy myself, and work directly with my own reactions internally.

While I would not claim that this is some "ultimate solution", it works most of the time for me. Then I am able to be the change I want to see and be much more effective with the outside situations I find myself involved with.  Then I am back in a place of love. 



I just watched Thrive the other day after seeing it mentioned here and I plan on putting the word out widely to my network. Good stuff. They put a lot of care in putting it together! Hats off to the filmmakers!

Thanks for pointing out the movie "Thrive".  I watched it last evening.  I like much of it.

I rather doubt that a few men who lived 100 years ago set out on a project of global domination, though as he connected the dots, he has made a credible argument.  The "dots" that he set out are true though, and I'm glad he is getting the word out.

I would have taken the beginning of the story to an earlier time.  Thomas Jefferson and the Anti-Federalists of 100 years before them were complaining loudly about the unconstitutional establishment of a National Bank (here in US).  He said, “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”  How right he was.

But in my opinion, even that is not the start-point of our problems.  The actual recorded history of the start point is lost, but I believe it happened at the time of the Pharaohs.

This may seem to be a strange starting point, but I have my reasons for considering it.

One day, after taking it upon myself to learn about ancient Egyptian mythology, I pulled out the Bible and read the first chapter of Genesis.  Suddenly, it dawned on me. That was no creation story as we understand it today.  It was a story told in the language of geometry.  I quickly found a compass and straight edge and began drawing what the words were telling me to draw.

It was quite an amazing experience.  Through geometric drawings, I read about the beginnings of matter, the big bang, relativity, thermodynamics, fermions and bosuns, the history of earth that began with one continent (Pangea), anti-matter, and much more.  The most striking moment for me was when I drew the fourth dimension (day).  That is the day that the sun, moon, and stars were allegedly created.  Well, there in my drawing was a sun (with a star in it), a moon, the earth between them, all on a field of stars.  That is exactly what the story said that I should be seeing at that time.

Getting to that point was difficult at first, because you can’t create that drawing without knowing about the rest of the story.  Time, it seems, works both forward and backward in the 4th dimension.  I say this because you can’t draw the two larger lights of the 4th day without knowing how to create a pentagram (5th day – that comes in the next verse).

When all was said and done, and when I had taken dominion over the world that I had created (cut out, folded, and held in my hand), I was holding a pyramid.  It looked familiar.  I compared the dimensions to those of the Great Pyramid of Giza and it was a replica.  I wondered about the internal chambers.  Would they match as well?  It wasn’t until I found Google Sketch that I was able to see that all of the chambers lined up with my drawing.  The fist chapter of Genesis, I concluded is the long-lost schematic for the Great Pyramid.

With this in mind, and aware that on the sixth day, humans were given the powers of the gods, I realized that Genesis is the story of “us”.  It complied with my philosophy about my being the god of my own reality and we being the god of ours.  If I knew how to write a book, I think it would be fascinating.

I believe that the pharaohs perverted that beautiful short story written in geometry, and they claimed god-status for themselves, using the priestcraft along with the military might of the kingcraft to humble the people in their own eyes and blind them to their own power.  Inequality became systemic at that point – when the earth’s population was yet very small.  But they did have knowledge of what many now call the “ancient knowledge”.  They just reserved it for themselves.

But that is just a side-story to explain why I wish that the movie hadn’t focused on conspiracy theories about the Robber Barons, who gained power shortly after the U. S. government established an unconstitutional national bank.

Thanks for the movie link.  I do appreciate it.

Hi Ben,

Yes all our hearts and minds are looking to occupy 2.0 ( that was my blog this morning as well)

As I said in my blog here, I see this next phase, from camping in to moving out and around a sa very positive step that will include more people, engage more people, enable a more focused "witness"..holding up what we can celebrate,..holding light on what undermines life, undermines the planet.


That was OWS first resonse as well.  They called a mass march at 9am this morning convening at Canal & Broadway in Mahattan at 9am.

In fact , that image, of Occupy moving on and throughout the city is on main stream live news.


It's all good news.  It's all about the snowball growing.


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