Comment by Mark E. Smith on November 24, 2011 at 7:30pm

 

Michael Moore presented his proposal to the goals and visions working group he attended once, but they did not vote or consense on it, and I doubt if the General Assembly will consense on it either.

He appears to be deliberately ignorant about the many ways in which Congress has blocked attempts at Constitutional Conventions in the past, and seems to think not only that it is possible for people to obtain Constitutional amendments in spite of the corrupt system currently wielding power on behalf of the 1% in this country, but he also seems to think that a handful of Amendments could turn our counterrevolutionary Constitution into a document that could force the 1% to ensure our unalienable rights. As the Declaration of Independence clearly stated, those rights were not given to us by any government, and no government has jurisdiction over them.

As for the rest of Moore's wish list, they will not be delivered by Santa Claus even if he is a very, very good boy. He is asking that many harmful things done by the puppets of the 1%, be reversed or repealed, and that cannot be done by puppets. If those puppets were representative of the interests of the people, those things would never have been done in the first place.

Moore is a diehard Democrat trying to co-opt the Occupy movement. As Prof. Robert Jensen explains, demands on the system are an attempt to destroy the Occupy movement by diverting it into traditional politics. As long as we resist such efforts, we retain the possibility of changing the system, and everything becomes possible. But the moment we succumb, we become mired in the same old same old that brought us here in the first place. That would be a tragic mistake and I doubt if Occupy Wall Street NYC is a star-struck teenager who will abandon all their principles to touch the shoes of a celebrity.

 

 

Comment by Mark E. Smith on November 24, 2011 at 7:45pm

 

On the other hand, Occupy Wall Street NYC did get tricked by emissaries of the global 1%, to the great disgust of Egyptian revolutionaries, into doing something what would only have helped the 1% impose sham elections on unwilling Egyptians.

If you can be duped by Michael Moore, Lindsay, I see no reason that they might not be also. I can only hope that it won't happen.

I'd also like to add that I'm a great admirer of Michael Moore and have seen all his films and read all his books. When he does his homework, he can't be topped. But in this case he is still trying to do things in ways which have been proven ineffective for centuries, so he really ought to know better.

Our goal isn't to reinstate Glass-Steagall, our goal is to establish a system in which Glass-Steagall won't be necessary. The reinstatement of Glass-Steagall by the puppets of the 1% would leave the puppets of the 1% in power so that they could repeal it again the next day. That was the mistake made after the Great Depression, to allow the system to make temporary reforms instead of changing the system. Let's hope that we've learned something from our mistakes and don't keep repeating them.

 

 

Comment by Lindsay Newland Bowker on November 26, 2011 at 11:13am

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am not a "fan" type ..I don't endorse people or swallow whole what anyone says.  I try to think on my own..do my own work, my own thinking.

Part one of Michael Moore's mesage is fully comparible with what we have expressed here as our vision.I see no significant diffeence and I don;t see it as less valuable because it was Michael Moore's product and not an Occupy General Assembly Product.  I haven't seen what the GA did approve or what action they took.  So I cannot comment on that except to say, that their not adopting desn't diminish it or take away from it in any way.  I do not consider Occupy( in refernce to the leadership and organizers) sacred or infallible.

As to Moore's action list..I agree with everything on it.  A complete fix?  Of course not.  What is ensnaring us is too complex and too insidious to be corrected so simply.  It will take decades.  I do think it is a good list of immediate measures and I don't think we can afford to wait for a better answer than to put Glass-Stegall back and fully implement what is law..the Dodd-Frank Act.  I think we have to take every immediate measure possible..change what we can in every word, every action, every choice we make in the market place, hold up and support every bit of good news that comes along..every piece of legislation that points in the right direction.

 

Comment by Mark E. Smith on November 26, 2011 at 4:10pm

 

I agree completely with the Working Group's vision statement. 

I do not agree with anything in Michael Moore's wish list. I believe that we have to oppose the current corrupt system with every word, every action, every choice we make, including not voting in its sham elections.

During the decades it would take to correct things by working within the system, tens, if not hundreds or thousands of innocent children will be drone bombed to death in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, and many other countries, while tens of thousands, if not millions of protesters will be tear gassed with US made tear gas by governments trained and funded by the US to suppress civil dissent the way our own government does.

When you vote for a candidate who might support legislation you wish for, or allow a Constitutional amendment you want, you are voting to give your personal consent of the governed to a government that is engaged in crimes against humanity and is killing innocent children in your name, with your explicit consent because you were so engrossed with what you wanted that you voted to authorize them to do what they wanted.

I can see that you don't, or perhaps don't want to understand what I'm saying, but if you vote in the sham elections of a corrupt system that doesn't allow you to vote on policy, but only to vote for those who will decide policy, the blood of innocent children is on your hands.

 

Comment by Mark E. Smith on November 26, 2011 at 4:12pm

 

In my previous comment I meant to say that while people spend decades working within the system, tens, if not hundreds or thousands of innocent children will continue to be drone bombed to death EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

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